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Nice job getting out the call for help. The ham can definitely can be a life saver out in the sticks. Also good call about him leaving his helmet on, but if a PT is complaining of severe back pain after having an atv roll onto them, I will not let them get up, even with feeling in the extremities. As long as the scene is safe!!! Keep them occupied enough so they aren't able to think about standing or sitting, while also making them as comfortable as possible with towels or whatnot.

But still, nice job.
 

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Nice job getting out the call for help. The ham can definitely can be a life saver out in the sticks. Also good call about him leaving his helmet on, but if a PT is complaining of severe back pain after having an atv roll onto them, I will not let them get up, even with feeling in the extremities. As long as the scene is safe!!! Keep them occupied enough so they aren't able to think about standing or sitting, while also making them as comfortable as possible with towels or whatnot.

But still, nice job.

@samuel313 objected to the person getting up and moving. In fact, he stated this in his 1st post. In an ideal world this person would have listened, but he didn't. This is how Christopher Reeves ended up paralyzed, he got up after he fell off the horse causing further damage.

If the patient wants to get up and has the ability to use force to do so, there is no point in stopping him as you will cause further injury to him. I'm sure the EMT's and paramedics on site mentioned something similar as well.

All in all samuel313 did not stand by and film it (like so many others do) but got involved and helped this guy get the medical attention he needed. Well done!
 

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I've been carrying a Spot Locator for 10 years now. Never needed the 911. I hunt and camp where there is no cell. Alot of the time I'm alone. It's peace of mind having a satellite 911 button there if I need it. I carried it on my boat before I had EPIRB. Plus I have two other buttons to signal fiends via satellite to email or text. One is Check in I'm OK. The other one is a help ( I use it for hey I killed something, help. bring Ice) or (I'm stuck) if wheeling. Pe-arranged with a bud. They get a GPS position and a map where I'm at.
Ed
 

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Discussion Starter #26
Nice job getting out the call for help. The ham can definitely can be a life saver out in the sticks. Also good call about him leaving his helmet on, but if a PT is complaining of severe back pain after having an atv roll onto them, I will not let them get up, even with feeling in the extremities. As long as the scene is safe!!! Keep them occupied enough so they aren't able to think about standing or sitting, while also making them as comfortable as possible with towels or whatnot.

But still, nice job.
@samuel313 objected to the person getting up and moving. In fact, he stated this in his 1st post. In an ideal world this person would have listened, but he didn't. This is how Christopher Reeves ended up paralyzed, he got up after he fell off the horse causing further damage.

If the patient wants to get up and has the ability to use force to do so, there is no point in stopping him as you will cause further injury to him. I'm sure the EMT's and paramedics on site mentioned something similar as well.

All in all samuel313 did not stand by and film it (like so many others do) but got involved and helped this guy get the medical attention he needed. Well done!
Beavertonite is correct, I strongly admonished him to stay on his back, in fact it was the first thing I told him to do after I ran over to him. Unfortunately, being the only licensed ham operator on the scene, I was busy on the radio when his son and another individual helped him onto his feet. I yelled over from the radio, but that's about all I could do. At that point I allowed him to sit in the front seat of the Xterra. I even offered blankets and such to cover the ground to lay on, but it's hard to be in two places at once (though I do have an identical twin living in NJ).
Given the choice of providing immediate medical care versus emergency comms, I knew I was the only one who could make the call, and I tried my best to give directions from there.
 

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Beavertonite is correct, I strongly admonished him to stay on his back, in fact it was the first thing I told him to do after I ran over to him. Unfortunately, being the only licensed ham operator on the scene, I was busy on the radio when his son and another individual helped him onto his feet. I yelled over from the radio, but that's about all I could do. At that point I allowed him to sit in the front seat of the Xterra. I even offered blankets and such to cover the ground to lay on, but it's hard to be in two places at once (though I do have an identical twin living in NJ).
Given the choice of providing immediate medical care versus emergency comms, I knew I was the only one who could make the call, and I tried my best to give directions from there.
Well that sucks. Shame they all didn't listen. Thankfully you'd be out of all liability had something occurred, if it came to that. Always have to keep liability in the back of your mind, even as an EMT. If they were trying to get up before an eval and after I told them to stay still, I would not touch them. You (not you personally) can loser your certs over that.
 

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Beavertonite is correct, I strongly admonished him to stay on his back, in fact it was the first thing I told him to do after I ran over to him. Unfortunately, being the only licensed ham operator on the scene, I was busy on the radio when his son and another individual helped him onto his feet. I yelled over from the radio, but that's about all I could do. At that point I allowed him to sit in the front seat of the Xterra. I even offered blankets and such to cover the ground to lay on, but it's hard to be in two places at once (though I do have an identical twin living in NJ).
Given the choice of providing immediate medical care versus emergency comms, I knew I was the only one who could make the call, and I tried my best to give directions from there.
Recently there has been research refuting the original thought of spinal immobilization and backboards. Yes, if there is spinal injury moving about can lead to more damage, even paralysis, BUT spinal immobilization via C-collar or by other mechanical means is showing to be less effective than once thought. In my area C-collars are going by the way side and are usually only applied in certain conditions meet criteria. If I recall correctly application is utilized when an individual shows neuro deficit after an accident (fall, crash, etc), is ejected from vehicle, motorcycle crash >20mph, auto vs pedestrian >20mph, axial load to the head (such as diving head first into shallow water), or a fall greater than 3x the person's height. In addition, backboards/spinal boards are showing to be liable to causing neuro damage as well since providers and EMS workers are likely to cause injury simply by the mechanical means of application, and the time spent on the board obtaining CT's, x-rays, treatments while waiting for those imaging results.

As for holding a patient down, you are on the verge of crossing several lines here as well. Naturally your first instinct is to want to cause no harm, and as long as you are working in those boundaries you should be free from tort. BUT, if you hold a patient against their will, you are at risk for a civil suit (false imprisonment/held captive, etc). If a person is eliciting signs of confusion or is unable to make reasonable decisions for himself you are likely, within the law, safe to hold them against their will. Now, if the person has sound mind and judgement and wishes to go about his way there is nothing you can do and therefore you should not be held liable for any injuries he causes to himself. I can't say I've ever encountered an individual being sued for holding a patient against his will in the hopes of stopping further injury, but I have seen plenty of injured individuals refuse care. They always mutter the same similar phrase, "...if I need it later I'll have someone take me in"....lol.

Be forewarned, I'm no lawyer or legal expert, but I have been an ICU nurse for 12 years and a flight nurse for 5. Sounds to me like you did everything right. You assisted the injured, attempted to reduce further injury, and called for help. Aside from a CT machine and some bandages I'm not sure there is more you could have done. Good work and good job!
 
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