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couldn't find this in the search feature. for some reason, I think my rear is starting to sag. I've had the lift in since mid november. is that normal? do I just purchase an add a leaf?
 

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Deaver mini pack from PRG will help with sagging springs, but with the shackles they seem to press down on the leaf pack a little so if the pack it self looks like it's sagging in the rear it's not, but if the whole rear end of the truck looks like it's sagging, then an AAL like the deavers will help you out.
 

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From a very long post on Club Frontier. The block part doesnt not apply and this whole article is based on Frontier rear leaves. Xterras, because of the shape of the spring, are much less prone to spring-sag. As they very rearly sag. But here you go;

Originally Posted by PrerunnerGreg
A shackle doesnt bend the spring any more than stock at ride height or try to lengthen the spring (flatten it), at least not in our situation running a max of 10" wheel travel. The spring is in the same loaction it always was, the spring doesnt know the lenght of the shackle. The shackle cant possibly "push down on the spring more". The truck weighs the same. The reason shackles try to "flatten" the second gen leafs is that they allow more "up" travel, the bump stop is farther from the axle at ride height and the spring can compress more (and a little bit is all it takes) and are trying to bend the spring over the overlaod. The stock springs were just not designed to have that much "up travel". The engineers at Nissan dont care that you want your truck taller, and didnt design these springs with that in mind. That is what casues the premature sag when running shackles, anyones shackles. Running shackles and ditching th overload (by using an AAL) seems to all but elliminate premature sag associated with running shackles.
As for blocks, ive posted about this before, using a quality block and good u-bolts, offers great results. The block will do nothing to harm your springs, the sping wont even know its there. Now, im not talking about a 5" block here, we are looking at up to 2" blocks. The amount of axle wrap, keeping the overload, is minimum. I challange ANYONE to actually notice a difference. You will basically have the same axle wrap you've always had and the difference is so minute that it is NOT noticable (although, adding traction bars and completely elliminating wrap, is). These trucks dont have enough power or traction to warrant spring wrap concerns. If you have a supercharger, a 6 speed and slicks, your not gonna be running blocks anyway. Do not ever use a cast aluminum or extruded-hollow block. Alot of the old lowered guys used these and they suck, they are cheap and will fail. The equivilent of a making a wheel out of wood, it's probably gonna break. Use billet blocks or a good cast steel (2" or more as the cast steel blocks are strongest at 2+ inches) and you will NOT have probelms. U-bolts work thier way loose when they are not installed propely and not retorqued. There is a stigma that blocks are the anit-christ on this board, and this is just not the case. We have over 4000 block kits installed on Frontier and Titans and have NEVER had a set fail or even a problem. I can only imagine how many sets CST, Fabtech, Procomp, Superlift, Skyjacker, Calmini, Ford, Dodge, etc have sold over the years and I dont see my local freeways lined with broken-down trucks due to failed rear blocks. As i said before, cheap cast aluminum blocks, that most of the lowered and economy kits use, are crap and will fail. And, yeah, I've heard all the horror stories, but I can usually trace that back to inproper install or running the crapiest/cheapest product the owner could find. The same as this story "I bought this clapped-out '87 Isuzu pup and have driving it for 3 years with zero maintenance and the stupid thing ran out of oil, Ill never buy an Isuzu again, these trucks suck!!!". Blocks get blamed for alot of proplems that are not the blocks' fault.
AAL are still the best though, but cost more, are harder to install, and offer less adjustment. My point here is to show that blocks can be a viable option and will work great for many people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrerunnerGreg
Darn, I forgot something. Adding shackles MAY, I repeat MAY, prematurely sag. The spring may never sag. But, if you have longer shackles and notice the truck sitting a bit lower after you go wheeling/romping/bashing, etc, the reason is stated above.
 

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PrerunnerGreg said:
Originally Posted by PrerunnerGreg
A shackle doesnt bend the spring any more than stock at ride height or try to lengthen the spring (flatten it), at least not in our situation running a max of 10" wheel travel. The spring is in the same loaction it always was, the spring doesnt know the lenght of the shackle.
This would be true if you add a drop bracket on the other side of the leaf pack, but since you add the extra length ONLY ON ONE END, you're actually changing the geometry of the spring. That's why you need a shackle 2'' longer to gain 1'' of lift.
 

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Offroad said:
This would be true if you add a drop bracket on the other side of the leaf pack, but since you add the extra length ONLY ON ONE END, you're actually changing the geometry of the spring. That's why you need a shackle 2'' longer to gain 1'' of lift.
That's only w/ running a shackle lift, right? I have the Deavers and those are a pretty standard 1.5" rear lift?
 

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Offroad said:
PrerunnerGreg said:
Originally Posted by

This would be true if you add a drop bracket on the other side of the leaf pack, but since you add the extra length ONLY ON ONE END, you're actually changing the geometry of the spring. That's why you need a shackle 2'' longer to gain 1'' of lift.
Im not quite sure I understand how you think adding a shackle on one end changes the geometry of the spring. The only change is that the spring is allowed to compress more (adding a 4" longer shackle will allow approx. 2" more inches of deflection before touching the factory bumpstop). Beyond that, because we only have a few inches of usable wheel travel, limited by the shock, the angle and length of the shackle is insignificant to the spring geometry. Changing the angle between the pivot points does not change the way the spring works or its capcity or rate, or progession. If you were to add a very long shock, this would be affected, but not here.
 

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I can say from experience, overload spring or not, the leafs of the X flatten too fast. I don't even think you need to add shackles into the mix.

For about 9 months I ran 1.5" (of lift) shackles, no overload leaf and extended bump stops (my tires were hitting the frame really bad). After that 9 months my springs were dead flat. I bought a set of Calimini AAL's and it helped, but they are even starting to flatten out after about a year and a half.

My next step, full Alcan packs.
 

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When you go with a new leaf pack, do you do away with the lift shackles (aftermarket) or do you add them in as part of the factoring for the arch and spring rate?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Will ordering bilsteins for the back, help this out? or do I now need to use blocks to prevent the sag? I need to keep the shackle lift in the back as the stock shackles are broken.
 

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Shocks will not do anything as they just dampen, they do not actually hold up the load.

You can not use blocks. Those are for the Frontier which is spring over axle (we are spring under...using blocks will lower the rear).

A set of Tibren (sp?) bump stops might help prevent the sag, but it isn't going to help once there is sag.

Best solution is a set of AAL.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
so do I need to removed the shackles. or can I do an aal, without the aal lifting the rear?
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I'll be calling Greg to fix this mess up, once i get the finances straight
 
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