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Discussion Starter #1
Has anyone installed the revolver shackles available from AC? I had a set of TeraFlex revolvers on my cherokee, and I loved em. No problems on the streets with those. I am thinking about getting these over regular shackles depending on problems others have experienced.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
never mind... read the new JP magazine (i know, jeep! haha)

article - Craptastic! Lamaest 4x4 products ever
revolver shackles are listed, so im not getting em. to many problems with them unloading during hard braking, even descending a steep hill! not so safe. crossing it off the list now.
 

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driver X said:
never mind... read the new JP magazine (i know, jeep! haha)

article - Craptastic! Lamaest 4x4 products ever
revolver shackles are listed, so im not getting em. to many problems with them unloading during hard braking, even descending a steep hill! not so safe. crossing it off the list now.
That article also says steel bumpers are lame. I installed the revolvers and so far love them. They do fine on pavement, and haven't had this "unloading" issue on the trail. Though they have only been on for a week, and I have only tested them on one offroading weekend.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
ive seen revolvers on the trails before, and people drive with them on the streets. they also have limiting straps, so i think that does away with the "unloading". still havent seen one on the new x yet... so im unsure about it still
 

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The whole unloading thing's a crock. No one I know of knows anyone who has them or knows anyone whose ever had them has witnessed this. Look at this pic-

There're revolvers on there, and believe me, if they were gonna' spring open at anytime, it'd be right there on that obstacle. Driver, what "problems" with other shackles are you referring to?
ETA From Ned946-
there has been (and will probably always will be) very stong camps one way or the other on the Revolver.

To be honest, the X seems to have MORE roll with the shackles than the Revolvers! My theory: most lift shackles are just two plates per side (per wheel) and offer no lateral stability, hence there is more play between the vehicle and the axle.

The Revolver offers probably MORE lateral stability than the stock shackle......the thing is strong. It allows rotation but NO lateral movement compared to lift shackles.

And can you explain "release"? The things are not spring activated or anything. When you corner, it is the "compression" side that affects roll the most. A sway bar tries to minimize this roll by splitting the difference in frame to axle distance and minimize the amount of compression (as measured in inches of frame to axle compression).

Now most of us have removed the rear sway bar. That act is the most stability limiting thing on the xterra. I am willing to say that the roll experienced with a stock X with no swaybar, a lift shackle X and a Revolver X are all essentially equilivant with the same amount of "release" in a corner.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the Revolver does not change the compression side of the Xterra.......the compression side of a turn determines (to the greatest extent) roll.

Decide what you want. If you want to corner, keep the roll bar ON. If you want to wheel, get it off. From there, we are only concerned with droop. Revolvers rule at droop! (and who really cares about the unweighted tire in a turn?)

Will the revolver replace a "set up custom" suspension? No way. Does it help keep one of the lifted tires in contact with tera firma off road.....yeah, a bit......but hey, every little bit helps!

Okay, I'm done. I'll post more later

PM me if you have more questions........I hate board discussions regarding the revolver.
 

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Just chiming in...all the bad stuff you hear about Revolver Shackles is garbage spread by those who don't have them/don't know how they work.

:D

The most common myths are "Unloading" and "No weight on the drooped tire".

Unloading is based upon the strange belief that your axle is holding you down, and that otherwise, your truck will spontaneously float up into space, perhaps melting as it nears the sun, etc. (Its why Revolver people like night wheeling...) ;)

They forget that its gravity holding the truck down, and its gravity that pulls the drooped tire down, etc.

A truck will not fly into the air if the revolver allows the tire to droop....I promise.

:D

Limit straps are NOT to prevent "Unloading", despite thoughts of some people, even some people who HAVE limit straps....the straps are to prevent the suspension from down travel beyond the limits of the drive train to reach....think "Bumpstop" for the concept.

People who install ANY MOD w/o considering its potential effects run into trouble...like installing 44" tires on a D44 Wrangler, and spitting out a drive shaft, blowing a diff, etc...trying to climb a hill, etc.

A Revolver Shackle is no different...if your shocks are too short, they get turned into limit straps, and may break....if your drive shaft is too short, it might slip out of the yoke, etc.

Same EXACT problems as if you install ANY suspension lift with more than stock wheel travel...you need to extend brake lines, breather tubes, get longer shocks, etc.

So a Revolver Shackle merely provides a few more inches of rear droop, the ability to keep your tires on the ground (A good thing)....Its about like having the wheel travel of a 5" lift, with only a 3" lift, etc.

Another point...you ALSO keep your center of gravity (COG) lower, with more travel...so on those off camber situations where you WANT to be as low as possible...you can.

_____________

As for the tire weighting issues - Again, for some bizzare reason...some people think a drooped tire has no weight on it because the Revolver let it droop. (I swear, there are people who think this)

Of course, you realize that a drooped tire on a regular suspension, was pulled down by gravity...AGAINST THE FLEX OF THE LEAF SPRING.

So - as the tire droops lower and lower...the leaf is bent more and more...untill, the leaf is so stiff it can't let the tire down another mm....so, ironically, at the LIMIT of droop for the regular suspension...the tire IS truly weightless.

With a Revolver, the drooped tire has the full weight of the tire and axle for traction (And lateral stability), at the very point that the regular suspension runs out of traction (And out of stability)...

Of course, that continues for a few more inches of droop, and then, exactly like the regular suspension...once the tire/axle is hanging from the extended revolver...exactly like the regular version was hanging from ITS shackle....it too is merely getting air time.

So - the revolver shackle gives MORE traction, MORE stabilty and NO problems any different from any other suspension mod, etc.

I've had my X tipped WAY over on side hills, gone up and down steep slopes that have rolled other trucks, etc.

DBAX, myself, and all the others who HAVE Revolvers can tell you...they work, and they're great.

People who "know people who _______" are merely repeating what they heard, typically out of context, and spread the incorrect impressions...and that includes the Bozo at JP, paid by advertisers in JP that don't SELL Revolvers. :D

So - sure - I guy can spit a shaft (Jeeps mostly...the drive shaft on those buggers is only like a foot long....), or roll over...it happens every day to regular suspension rigs....

If the guy has Revolvers, its a nice scape goat...afterall, its human nature to assume a correlation proves causation.

For example - Charles Manson drank milk as a child, and then became a crazed killer, therefore, milk does the making of bodies good, or whatever.

:D

If you want more rear wheel travel, and can think...the Revolvers are great.

:D
 

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Discussion Starter #9
the problems i heard were from a few jeep drivers. while living in utah, i got to visit the Teraflex warehouse in Salt Lake City... the owners of the jeeps were there and said they didnt like the revolvers because they would "unload" on the road during hard braking. also on hard cornering it would "lean excessively"...

honestly i dont believe anything they say. if you drive a lifted vechicle, it will handle different compared to it stock. it will never stop on a dime. it will never take a corner like a sports car. i think those jeep drivers just dont like their jeeps :cheers:

but i will get my revolvers for the rear later this year. just pieceing another suspension kit together little by little... seeing what is working for others and what isnt
 

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So has anyone figured out if your driveshafts will be ok with revolvers?

Also, a quick question.....
If you need longer shocks for all the added drop, when the shackle is folded your shock is essentially too long (would be like installing a longer than stock shock on a stock suspension) So wont this limit your uptravel? I would think the shock would bottom out before the springs would hit the bumpstops.
 

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stevet47 said:
So has anyone figured out if your driveshafts will be ok with revolvers?

Also, a quick question.....
If you need longer shocks for all the added drop, when the shackle is folded your shock is essentially too long (would be like installing a longer than stock shock on a stock suspension) So wont this limit your uptravel? I would think the shock would bottom out before the springs would hit the bumpstops.
I am not sure of any other 05+ running the revolvers. I didn't have to replace my driveshaft, but of course I don't count. I was already running an extended Tom Woods drive shaft. On the AC site, they recommend longer shocks and limiting straps. Your best bet would be to call AC and ask them about the shocks and drive shaft. If I was AC, I would have wrote "required" instead of "recommended" for the limiting strap if you have drive train issues (or even include them in the kit).

I also wanted to add that these revolvers are NOT like the first gen's. The first gen's revolvers are actually shorter than the shackles they use for their suspension lifts. The revolvers I received from AC are actually LONGER than the Calmini shackles I was running.

TJ, thanks for posting the great info on the revolvers.
 

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As for what shocks and so forth...

Think about this...when you add a suspension lift....and you later stuff a tire on the trail...doesn't the tire stuff up to the same point it always did, with, or without, the lift? :D

IE: The SL doesn't change the stuff point...merely the ride height, and, if well engineered, etc...the droop is also extended.

The caveat is if you use a crappy twin tube shock that needs too much body length to get enough total travel...instead of a good monotube that can compress enough to allow full stuff, and extend enough to not limit droop.

Example - I originally measured my total available wheel travel with and without the shock connected...for the 3" SL with regular, and Revolver Shackles.

My SL shocks were Bilstein 5100's, 16" - 26" compression/extension, 10" total travel.

For comparison, the Calmini 3" SL Shocks are 12.25" - 24" units, with 9.75" of total travel.

Rancho 9100's are 19" - 29" units (10" travel).

The OEM shocks were 12" - 21" units, with 9" of total travel.

I did some rear stuff measurements, ad determined I only needed to compress the shocks to about 17" - 18" to get full stuff on my 33's.

The shocks on all X's are inboard of the axle ends by a good margin...so a little shock travel = a lot of wheel travel.

When I fully drooped the axle, as far as the leaves/R. shackles would let it go...I was dropping the shock mount points about 2 inches below the limits of the 5100's.


So - that meant for full axle drop, I needed the shocks to be at least ~ 28" - 29" long.

When I tried one side fully stuffed, and the OTHER fully drooped, I found the drooped side did NOT need to be as long, as its inboard mounting position was picked UP in that droop/stuff position...in fact, the 5100's were about long enough to work with anything OTHER THAN a full axle drop (Both tires dropped the same amount).

I had beefed the leaves (Doubled AAL's) to help carry all of the environmental sampling equipment I have to haul into the boonies for work...so I was using the Revolvers to add droop lost to the stiffer leaf packs.

I swapped in a set of Bilstein 7100's, with 17" - 29" travel (12"), and 280/100 valving to improve rebound/compression on my fat (5,800 lb when loaded for work...) rig.

So - it now stuffs enough, and droops enough...for any scenario....without using uptravel robbing bumpstop extensions.

:D
 

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That's great info TJ. Thanks!

I have been wondering how much travel I need to get for my new rear shocks. Too bad i won't be able to get them for a while. I'm from a small town called Lowcash right now.

Z.
 

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Quick points:

I have an '01 - but the principle is the same/the lengths different.

The ride handling is better with the Revolvers than it was on the regular lift shackles...there are no bad lean, unloading, or other problems...it just doesn't hurt you there.

:D
 

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BTW - I guy I know posted a video of his X driving up a ramp, once with Revolvers, and once with calmini lift shackles...because some dumb asses claimed that the Revolver Shackled X would lose traction the second the Revolver STARTED to unfold...based upon the Myth that there's no weight on the drooped tire unless the shackle was folded up.

Well...the video was conclusive...the Revolvered X made it up w/o slipping a tire until the end of the droop was reached...the OPPOSITE of at the start of unfolding.

The Calmini Lift Shackled X did exactly the same thing...slipping when IT reached the end of its droop.

The interesting thing though, the Revolvered X made it 26" FURTHER up the ramp - as ITS end of droop was alot further than the Calmini Lift Shackle's.

:D

So - it was proof you could see, that the Revolver Shackles added traction, and added articulation.

:D

I'm trying to upload it to here now...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBFO3ZcgPec

Regular Shackle





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wRs9gF5lAU

Revolver Shackle

:D
 

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so if you had these Revolver shackles on an 05+ X, how long would your rear shocks (at full droop) need to be? I assume it would be different than the 29" required on the 1st gen's right?

And also this question has not been answered yet. I dunno if it even has an effect since I'm not too automotively inclined.

stevet47 said:
So has anyone figured out if your driveshafts will be ok with revolvers?
Thanks for the help. And by the way, that's a lot of good info TJ. After watching those videos, I don't see how anyone considering shackles wouldn't want the Revolvers.
 

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To determine the correct shock lengths, and if the drive shaft is ok, etc...

I strongly recommend doing measurements of the flex you end up with...and what becomes your limiting factors.

I jacked up the truck, and did it with disconnected shocks...letting the bottoms hang...to see if the hung higher than the lower shock mounts - if they hung higher, then they would be too short, by the amount too high.



:D

I looked at the drive shaft when it was drooped...and checked the spline clearance (Looked the same before after on mine...)

On the2005+'s, I've seen the brake lines and breather tubes get tight on even regular droop...and I can make slack by simply following the lines back, and unclipping the clips that hold them...until I have created enough slack for a full droop...then, I re-clip them into their new, more direct routed, positions....a few minutes of work.

So - the idea is to just start jacking, and see what happens...adjusting as you go...when you reach the amount of flex you want...note your measurements...and get what you need.

That way...when you are ready to do the install....you know what you're doing.

:D
 

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Revolver Shackles are traditionally misunderstood. Otherwise bright people will insist that a drooped tire with Revolver Shackles has no weight on it, and that Revolvers are just for great RTI scores, but without weight on the tire, the great articulation is just pretty.

To test this question a Nissan Xterra, a 50,000 lb freight scale, and a forklift were used.

The rear tire of the Xterra was placed in the center of the scale and the front tire was lifted in one inch increments, recording the weight on the scale at each given height.

Lifting the front end causes the rear suspension to droop as the front is raised by the fork lift, similar to a rig climbing a rock with the front end, and the rear staying on the ground to push you over the rock, etc…

Performed once with Standard Shackles, and once with Revolver Shackles.

After recording the data a graph was made:




The left side of the chart is the weight (LB) on the freight scale (the tire’s weight available for traction)

The bottom of the chart is the amount the truck was lifted with the fork lift, in inches, to UN-Weight the drooped tire on the scale.

The 0 inch (No droop) numbers were the same, the scale begins at 1”.

Both graphs show approx 1,300 lbs on the rear tire with all tires on the ground.

Both graphs show the rear tire "unweighting" in a fairly linear fashion as the front tire is lifted.

The standard shackle is down to 0 lbs at a front wheel height of approx 19".

At this same height the Revolver setup still had over 400 lbs of weight on the same tire.

The revolver shackle reaches 0 lbs at a front wheel height of approx 24"….5 more inches of droop….WITH weight on the tire.

So the traction of the regular shackle and the Revolver shackle is similar for the first 8” of droop…

At about 8”, the regular shackles’ droop is starting to be resisted by the leaf pack arch, and, the amount of down force it can apply to the tire is less linear, and the tire starts to unweight more sharply.

The Revolver Shackles’ droop stays fairly linear – applying down force to the tire long after the regular shackle’s down force at the tire was zero.

At ~16” of droop, the regular shackle’s down force had dropped to ~ 400 lb, but the Revolver Shackles’ downforce was still ~ 600 lb, about a third more than a regular shackle could provide.

At NO point did the Revolver Shackle provide LESS downforce than the regular shackle, it provided about the same until the regular shackle reached the leaf pack’s arch range….then more and more than the regular shackle could.

As soon as the regular shackle started fighting the leaf pack, the leaf pack started to allow less and less weight on the regular shackles’ drooping tire.

From that point on, the Revolver Shackle provided MORE AND MORE of an improvement in downforce on the drooped tire.

This improvement not only provided more down force as the tire was drooped, it also allowed that traction to be available for more inches of droop, allowing an additional 5” of USEFUL droop over the regular shackles.

Of course, after the added 5” of droop, the leaf pack arch ALSO pulls back the tire for the Revolver Shackle the same way…as its still just a shackle.

If you picture a coil sprung rig with a live axle, the dynamics are similar…

The coil provides less and less down force as the tire droops, but, even when a live axle’d rig is drooped far enough to let the coil fall out, its’ STILL receiving down force at the tire.

A coil sprung rig applies the same down force as a Revolver Shackle, as its still just a drooping live axle that’s not being held back by a leaf pack on droop.

So, a coil sprung live axle should be about the same, or better than a Revolver Shackled live axle, as the physics are about the same as far as tire weighting on droop. (no one worries that their TJ will “unload” on them and flip them, etc…as it just doesn’t happen, just like it doesn’t happen with Revolver Shackles….because the physics don’t make it happen…it’s a myth)



IE:

1) Revolver Shackles add droop, and, add traction during that droop, providing MORE weight on the tire than a regular shackle can.

2) A live axle with Coils, and a live axle with Revolvers, will follow roughly the same physics, as far as axle weighting, under articulation.

3) A leaf spring fights droop once the pack has arched, and is being pulled down by the tire/axle, rather than pushing it down...robbing the tire of traction as droop increases.

4) A regular shackle swings inward to allow the pack to arch more, providing more droop and more weight on the tire.

5) A Revolver Shackle unfolds, and then swings, to perform the exact same function, but over a longer distance, improving droop and tire weighting even further. Note that there was no evidence of a transition from unfolding to swinging inwards in the data, indicating that this doesn't have an impact upon weighting. (Which remained essentially linear)






The tests were done by MMnIAC at XOC

:D
 
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