[Mholmes00]

So I'm trying to figure out what my next step is.

'05 was sitting for a bit at the beginning of our stay-at-home time. Two or three times it had to turn over for a little while before starting. I started getting the SLIP and VDC light staying on, and picked up a p0340 "cam position sensor bank 1 (passenger)" sensor code, so I replaced the sensor (this is the straight sensor). "Fix it Felix's" youtube video helped prepare me for how annoying it would be to access the darn thing, made me want to have skinnier hands and arms. I also cleaned the throttle body and did the re-learns at the same time, just because I was in there and had some time.

The starting issues went away, everything seems to be running fine, idle is nice and low now (650 rpm) after the throttle body cleaning and re-learns. But now I'm getting a p0011 code -- "A" Camshaft Position - Timing Over-Advanced or System Performance (Bank 1). The only other thread I've seen that included an 0340 and a 0011 was kylejoe, but he got the 0011 first then the 0340. Most threads regarding 0011 mention a whole host of possible problems, but the sensor is NOT one of them (that I've seen).

Where to start troubleshooting? There are a lot of other threads on these topics, which I have plumbed thoroughly (1,2, 3 for example). But despite the plethora of information, I'm still stumped about what to try first. Bit overwhelmed by all the possible problems that may be causing it.

The sensor I put in was inexpensive, definitely not OEM. Should I suspect that and replace that again first? I don't want to go replacing the IVT solenoids unless it's necessary. And I'm taking a long offroad trip to middle-of-nowhere utah next week, so I'm worried about getting stranded.

Advice appreciated! thanks
Matt

 

[IntellectualRedneck]

Cam sensors should be Hitachi or OEM. The X doesn't like the cheap aftermarket ones. Rule that out first.

 

[Mholmes00]

So I replaced the sensor again, no luck. I used some engine cleaner and the code went away for about 150 miles, which is the longest I haven't sported the SES light for years (cause of the EVAP filter mostly). The fact that the code went away for some time after engine cleaner makes me think it might be a stuck solenoid. So I'm going to replace that next (along with plugs and belt+tensioner for unrelated maintenance) and see where that leaves me. For some reason I thought the replacement solenoid was ten times what it actually is, so I'm not as reticent about the job anymore.

 

[IntellectualRedneck]

If you dont have it already, download the FSM. It has all the troubleshooting steps and procedures. If its not your Crank sensor, or VTC solenoid, or a connection to those, it would be an oil pressure issue. How your oil pressure? your 05 should have a real pressure gauge and not an dummy switch

 

[Mholmes00]

oil pressure is great except when warm & idling, then it drops down to just above the line. I assumed that was normal with an '05 with 196k, your opinion?

 

[IntellectualRedneck]

yes that's normal for an 05. if its low enough for the oil light to come on though, it's not.

 

[Mholmes00]

Ok I replaced the passenger side (bank A) solenoid. While I was in there I did plugs—found a bit of oil around one, so replaced the plastic valve cover with built-in plug tube seals (that was opposite side of the engine, on driver’s side). Also did the serpentine belt and tensioner.

The good news is that the belt/tensioner squeal is gone. The bad news is that it ran for ~150 miles over 5 trips and the same light came back on: P0011 “‘A‘ camshaft position - timing overadvanced Or system performance” and also at the same time P0430 ”catalyst system efficiency below threshold”.

So here’s the new question: does having both those codes together mean anything to anybody?

background Info: I replaced both cats (And deleted the rears) about 10k ago, but did not replace oxygen sensors (power was going down noticeably, so it seemed that the cats needed it; power went back up noticeably after replacing the cats so I counted that as a proper diagnosis). If it was P0430 by itself I would think maybe oxygen sensor, but these codes have been coming together for the past 8k miles.

More background info: the engine is not running rough. Not at all as far as I can tell. Maybe electrical? I hate chasing electrical problems, thoroughly despise it. But what electrical problem would cause both codes?

More background: I’m at 198k miles.

One more probably unrelated item: after replacing the cats I get a stuttering sort of sound consistent in timing with the exhaust manifold action while accelerating around 2500 rpms, which sounds exactly to me like rattling heat shield(s) underneath the car somewhere, but I have been discounting it as meaningless because I am confident with the rattling heat shield diagnosis.

It’s been 150k since the timing chain was done, I believe. At what point, given the codes above, should I be going in to do the timing chain? I’m not hearing any whine except maybe perhaps when I kick the accelerator a bit from an idle in the driveway.

 

[Lowcountry idn]

So you replaced the sensor with OEM, and solenoid, and your oil pressure is good, and you have no drive ability differences - ie good power, normal MPG?

Based on it running good, my guess is its more likely a feedback issue than a real issue - ie its working correctly but the computer thinks it isn't.

Although it is possible it is occasionally getting stuck / throwing a code. Gummed up from sitting? You may want to change the oil to something high quality detergent oil - or even try the high detergent mechanic in a can type stuff they used to sell for sticky lifters - just to rule it out? Sounds like its not your issue but its a cheap and easy thing to do.

And see if you can check the wiring to the CAM sensor. If its intermittent it will likely be really hard to find anyway - but you should at least get an ohm meter out and try. Double check your connector again also - make sure no pins are loose and maybe use a di-electric grease.

I hate to recommending this because most dealers are jerks, however I believe with Consult 3 the dealer can manually force the valve timing - and hence determine if the timing is actually moving, or if its just the sensor thinking its too far advanced when it isn't. At least that would narrow it down to either mechanical issue or feedback issue. But you would need to find a dealer that a) actually understood what you were asking them to do, and b) was willing to do it. I know the dealers around here wouldn't - there worthless.

My thoughts anyway?

 

[IntellectualRedneck]

I get this nagging feeling that somewhere along the way there was confusion or mixup between p0340 and p0430, but I'll give the benefit of the doubt.
P0340 and P0011 have related/similar possible causes.
P0430 not so much unless your timing was off, which I suppose you could measure. If you had enough slack to make the timing go out of whack I assume you would hear it slapping the case.
Download the FSM if you don't already have it, and just go through all of the troubleshooting steps in the EC section.

P0430 would likely be your cat or AF/O2 sensor. What brand cat did you use? The cheap ones dont last long.

The possible causes of P0430 are:
Three way catalyst (manifold)

Exhaust tube
Intake air leaks
Fuel injector
Fuel injector leaks
Spark plug
Improper ignition timing

The possible causes of P0011 are:

Crankshaft position sensor (POS)
Camshaft position sensor (PHASE)
Intake valve timing control solenoid valve
Accumulation of debris to the signal pick-up
portion of the camshaft
Timing chain installation
Foreign matter caught in the oil groove for
intake valve timing control

Possible cause of P0340 are:
Harness or connectors
(The sensor circuit is open or shorted)
Camshaft position sensor (PHASE)
Camshaft (Intake)
Starter motor
Starting system circuit
Dead (Weak) battery

 

[Mholmes00]

Thanks for the responses guys. Most recent first:
thanks for the benefit of the doubt—it’s definitely 430 not 340.

I used Evan Fischer brand cats. Embarrassed to say I can’t even remember why I went with that brand—whether it was for a good reason or not. Any opinion on this brand?

I’ll take a look at the troubleshooting steps in the EC section of the FSM.

I already tried a can of an engine detergent, and afterwards it did seem to keep the code away for a little while, which is why I proceeded with replacing the solenoid. Perhaps I should try again, more methodically. I’ll reset the code and keep track of miles and trips before it comes back; I’ll do that twice in a row to establish repeatability. Then I’ll add the detergent, clean it, replace the oil, and see how long it takes after that for the code to come back. If it takes significantly longer, it’s some evidence for sticky/gummy/clogs somewhere.

I don’t believe I can properly test the cam sensor (Hall effect) with an ohm meter, but I remember seeing a thread And/or YouTube video with details about checking a Hall effect sensor so I could go that route as well. And I could use the ohmeter To check connections in wiring runs, though as mentioned if it’s intermittent it might not show. I’ll pull the connectors apart, wiggle things around, do a little dance, and reassemble with some T-9 (I like the boeshield T-9 for my dielectric option).

I hear you about the dealer having the tools. But the only dealer near me is also truly horrendous. Not to mention, it might not show up at an idle in the garage, but only when the VTEC kicks in. Under what driving conditions, by the way, would the VTEC be trying, unsuccessfully, to retard the timing (thus throwing the over-advanced code, is my assumption). And mainly, can I repeat those conditions sitting in my driveway, or is it while running down The highway or something?

Here’s a wild ass idea—could it be an intermittent fault in one of my ignition coils? Could a rare misfire throw both a 0011 and a 0430? For some reason I have some hypochondria associated with my coils (sounds like a personal problem). For one, the plastic connector housing on the #1 coil is cracked (it’s the one under the manifold and somebody who touched my car Probably broke it trying to change the plugs without removing the intake). The connector now slides on and off easily, as there is no positive locking catch on it. I don’t see why the electrical contacts should suffer as a result, but it’s... something. Also one of my other coils Came apart as I was trying to pull it out of the tube, and the way those things go back together is not very satisfying. But if I was experiencing Regular misfires, I would sure as hell know about it. Which would mean it would have to be extremely intermittent. Thing is, it only has to fault twice for the code to throw, right? And then the code doesn’t reset, so it would only take a bit of funniness right? But I don’t even know whether an ignition coil issue could throw both those codes, so I’m grasping here.

anyway, thanks for the advice it’s a place for me to start again
Matt

 

[IntellectualRedneck]

I assume you'd get a misfire code if you had coil issues. cant say I know anything about Evan Fischer cats.

 

[Lowcountry idn]

Thanks for the responses guys. Most recent first:
thanks for the benefit of the doubt—it’s definitely 430 not 340.

I used Evan Fischer brand cats. Embarrassed to say I can’t even remember why I went with that brand—whether it was for a good reason or not. Any opinion on this brand?

I’ll take a look at the troubleshooting steps in the EC section of the FSM.

I already tried a can of an engine detergent, and afterwards it did seem to keep the code away for a little while, which is why I proceeded with replacing the solenoid. Perhaps I should try again, more methodically. I’ll reset the code and keep track of miles and trips before it comes back; I’ll do that twice in a row to establish repeatability. Then I’ll add the detergent, clean it, replace the oil, and see how long it takes after that for the code to come back. If it takes significantly longer, it’s some evidence for sticky/gummy/clogs somewhere.

I don’t believe I can properly test the cam sensor (Hall effect) with an ohm meter, but I remember seeing a thread And/or YouTube video with details about checking a Hall effect sensor so I could go that route as well. And I could use the ohmeter To check connections in wiring runs, though as mentioned if it’s intermittent it might not show. I’ll pull the connectors apart, wiggle things around, do a little dance, and reassemble with some T-9 (I like the boeshield T-9 for my dielectric option).

I hear you about the dealer having the tools. But the only dealer near me is also truly horrendous. Not to mention, it might not show up at an idle in the garage, but only when the VTEC kicks in. Under what driving conditions, by the way, would the VTEC be trying, unsuccessfully, to retard the timing (thus throwing the over-advanced code, is my assumption). And mainly, can I repeat those conditions sitting in my driveway, or is it while running down The highway or something?

Here’s a wild ass idea—could it be an intermittent fault in one of my ignition coils? Could a rare misfire throw both a 0011 and a 0430? For some reason I have some hypochondria associated with my coils (sounds like a personal problem). For one, the plastic connector housing on the #1 coil is cracked (it’s the one under the manifold and somebody who touched my car Probably broke it trying to change the plugs without removing the intake). The connector now slides on and off easily, as there is no positive locking catch on it. I don’t see why the electrical contacts should suffer as a result, but it’s... something. Also one of my other coils Came apart as I was trying to pull it out of the tube, and the way those things go back together is not very satisfying. But if I was experiencing Regular misfires, I would sure as hell know about it. Which would mean it would have to be extremely intermittent. Thing is, it only has to fault twice for the code to throw, right? And then the code doesn’t reset, so it would only take a bit of funniness right? But I don’t even know whether an ignition coil issue could throw both those codes, so I’m grasping here.

anyway, thanks for the advice it’s a place for me to start again
Matt

OK, I will take another stab.

No I don't know of a way to test a hall affect sensor either although I assume there is a wy - I was suggesting checking the wiring from the sensor to the harness etc for a short. I intermittent short with no signal would likely make the ECU think the sensor is either all the way one way or the other since the sensor I believe has a 0-5V output, so a short or break would look like 0V to the ECU.

The cam sensor is a feedback device - ie closed loop. The the cam position goes to a position based on whatever conditions it is under and the sensor feeds back to the ECU to tell it where exactly the cam is at the current time - ie "closed loop". So if you have a short or bad connection or whatever with the sensor it will look to the ECU like its pinned all the way one way or the other. Since your truck is running good this seems unlikely - so it seems to be more of an electrical fault with the feedback device or its wiring? Again - just a guess.

And since everything is running good and also this is a feedback device - I doubt your coils have anything to do with it - and as mentioned - if you had a bad coil you should get a misfire code as well.

On the P0430 - a lot of guys get random faults like this with aftermarket cats - including me. The aftermarket cats have the minimal amount of catalyst in them required - so there working on the margins at the best of times, so if anything is off just a little it can throw a code - "performance under spec" is basically what its saying. Since the cats are fairly new I would clear the code and see how long before it comes back. If it were a air/fuel sensor you would most likely have also a P0171 or P0172 code as well - or at least thats the code I got when my 02 sensor quit.

 

[Mholmes00]

Update: replaced the IVT solenoid on bank A for the P0011 code (passenger side). Code stayed off for a couple hundred miles, maybe a dozen separate trips, then came back. I find it less likely that it’s an electrical issue since it’s so intermittent. But at this point I’m not sure what‘s next. Could the mechanism (I don’t know the proper part names) be sticking intermittently?
Can anyone Recommend an ODBII reader app that could actually shed light on the problem? I have one that might help, but I’m not sure what I’m looking for. What info does the x even provide regarding camshaft advancement? And even if I actually get my eyes on the sensor reading, what am I looking for? When should the timing be advanced, and when retarded?

 

[terrapirata]

hey Mholmes00 were you able to fix this issue? I just got today the P0011 and now I see this wont be easy