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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
If you got out to WENT this year you probably got your first taste of our tubular fender protectors at some point during the event. We tried to get around the area as much as possible, and we painted things bright orange. We were hard to miss.

If you didn't get out to WENT....I'm sorry.

At any rate you've seen us talking about 'tubular fender protector compatibility' with our rock sliders for a while now. We've tried our best to describe what exactly that means. Well here is what that means:









And it means the whole system is bolt on. No welding, no modification necessary when using our rock sliders and our front bumper. The system acts as an exo-skeleton style cage for the front end of the truck.

And we have laid the entire weight of the truck on the fenders coming down trail 15 at Windrock and we drove out with 0 body damage.


To answer the inevitable.

Yes, that is our 1st gen bumper.
Yes, we will be offering bolt in panels to fill the openings.
Yes, we have a 2nd gen bumper with a similar style.
Yes, we will offer a couple different versions of the top tubing.
Yes, we will make you a larger, or smaller stinger.
Yes, we will offer a version without the winch mount that will net you better approach angles on 2nd gen trucks.
Yes, we can do more exotic and aggressive builds if you want to trim your frame horns back on your 1st gen.
Yes, we can build a high light mount on it like we did ours. (not pictured)
Yes, the bumper will be under $1000.
Yes, significantly.

I like saying yes today!:)

But, NO, if you're Kurt Russel, this will not make your truck Death Proof!
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
alright ill take the bait, color me curious about the gen2 front bumper.



2nd that.


you have my attention... lets see the 2nd gen stuff!




You should follow us on Facebook. We've put up pics of the 2nd gen bumper a couple weeks ago. We actually did that one first. We only has to prioritize the finish this whole setup on the 1st gen because it was the truck we were taking to WENT.

https://www.facebook.com/PandPengineering


THE 2nd gen that we did was less aggressive with the too tubing. This first gen was a bit wilder to be eye catching at WENT. As i said earlier we will gladly work the top tubing to your satisfaction.










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So I take it you can make the top tubing as conservative as wanted?
Will the filler plate inserts be welded in?

And it looks like the open design of the main/center section would allow for you to mount a winch relatively far back and give you little overhang for better approach
 

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And what about those with aftermarket sliders already?

I'm going to assume this isn't going to work at all. There are multiple brands of aftermarket sliders. Each brand would require a different set of fender protectors. It just isn't feasible to ask a vendor to supply products to fit other vendors parts. They may come back and say something completely different, but until then, this is my best guess. What does it matter anyways? Aren't you selling your Xterra because you don't ever wheel?


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Discussion Starter #12
post the pics here for those of us that don't facebook.

Got my previous post updated. Moving slowly posting from my phone this morning.

And what about those with aftermarket sliders already?


Tying into someone else's sliders is very difficult to do reliably using all rigid pieces. It may happen at some point when I can devote some time to figuring it out. But right now I have development of 10 products or projects on the board and we are a 2 man operation in the shop.

We can't get anything out before we have a request for something else at this point.

I wish I had a staff of 10-20 people to do the day to day so I could do this kind of development. It's what I truly enjoy. But- at this point there are people getting envelops with hardware for products they won in the raffle at WENT. I am the "lead" (sole) engineer, CEO, PR person, product tester, supply chain/procurement, etc. etc. and I licked the stamps on those envelopes.

I'm not complaining at all. I love doing this. I just want everyone to understand that I hear you but we just are what we are as a shop right now. And I see what you're asking for as interesting and would potentially open up a bigger market for these but is going to be time consuming and essentially a 1 off.

And I have a host of concerns about the prospect.

My bumper and will be made like my
Sliders in that there will be height adjustment built in. This way I know several things that allow me to tie them together:

The location of the slider
The location of the bumper
Their location relative to one another

Without knowing those things AND having some adjustability it's very difficult to tie the pieces together.

I'm addition, there's several different sliders out there, someone may or may not have them setup for a body lift. For one company a body lifted pair might be 2 full inches higher than non-body lifted, for another it might be 1.75". To know I would have to buy every version of everyone else's sliders to be able to build an adapter kit. That's not feasible.

I don't know other companies production tolerances so I may nail my product every time But I ship it out and it still doesn't fit it fits poorly. We are working very hard at not getting our name thrown around like some others for having those kinds of issues. We work too hard on our end to have customers be unhappy with our work in any way.

with the removable cap system we have developed into our sliders we know what our anchor point is and that it provides a solid structural anchor point.

Now one thing I can say is that we CAN make this happen. But it may be in the realm of custom work. Jeff loves custom work - you should see his chopper. If you brought your truck to the shop we could definitely make it happen. The major thing being we would have hands on your truck. But I still wouldn't be sure I could repeatably send the same setup across the country as a bolt on kit.


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I'm going to assume this isn't going to work at all. There are multiple brands of aftermarket sliders. Each brand would require a different set of fender protectors. It just isn't feasible to ask a vendor to supply products to fit other vendors parts. They may come back and say something completely different, but until then, this is my best guess. What does it matter anyways? Aren't you selling your Xterra because you don't ever wheel?


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Didn't say it was for me.

Just asking in general as there are many others that have Shrocks, Hefty, etc so no one is going to sell only to buy THEIR brand.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Didn't say it was for me.

Just asking in general as there are many others that have Shrocks, Hefty, etc so no one is going to sell only to buy THEIR brand.
I'll honestly say I thought 6 months ago that the statement you made would have been iron clad and wouldn't have challenged it.

I have actually already had several customers who have swapped over to our sliders from other brands. Both of those that you have named. I have been surprised at how often it has happened.

Metz ran our sliders in the rock challenge this year at WENT after taking off someone else's sliders the day before. He wanted to have the tube fender capability and he wanted a pair that were made slightly shorter to clear his 35" tires.

If you look at the pictures/videos closely when you can see the side of his rig on the rock challenge you can see the single bolt horizontally through the square body of the slider ~12" back from the very front.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
So I take it you can make the top tubing as conservative as wanted?
Will the filler plate inserts be welded in?

And it looks like the open design of the main/center section would allow for you to mount a winch relatively far back and give you little overhang for better approach

The filler plates will be bolt in so the bumper can be run either way without modification and so someone could decide they wanted to add them later on.

The top tubing we plan on offering in 3 varieties.

1) None at all. This makes the bumper very "pre-runner" style
2) Stinger (as shown) with the stinger height being customizable
3)A squared center section of the top hoop, mre traditional style.

Such as:




We will also be offering some sort of discounted shop rate towards hours of customization of your bumper. For example, the addition of light mounts in the style and location you want. Things like this are difficult to build in a "1-size fits all" fashion these days as there are now many many different sizes of LED light bars and round lights and people want all sorts of different locations.

We are going to offer a "base model" bumper and you can add to it to your hearts content.

As for the winch, yes we are mounting it as far back as possible. We are also going to offer these bumper available without a winch mount plate. This is of particular significance on the 2nd gen trucks as it would allow of a MUCH improved approach angle.


Additionally the mounts for the 2nd gen bumper will not significantly alter the factory crash protection. The 2nd gen trucks crumple zones are built into the frame horns behind the core support. Only sleeving the frame in this area would alter the vehicles ability in this area.
 
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