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Discussion Starter #1
I was stuck today and my Engo12k was definitely being used. It got to the point where it was going very slow and my lights started to dim and i had no throttle response.

When I had a small amount of throttle on the engine would act as normal as soon as i started to pull with the winch by throttle died and the batter meter on the dash dropped to almost 10!

Just wondering if this is normal or if my battery or alternator are going bad. I do have a 05 and i believe I have the lower amp one. Do i just need a new battery? although i do have a duralast gold... or would a newer model alternator or mean green fix it? maybe dual batteries?
 

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A loaded 12k winch will draw a LOT of power. more than the alternator can provide. Alternator output is also related to engine speed, so at idle it is on the lower side of what it can put out. Output is also reduced as it warms up, and running at full power will warm it up.

More than likely you loaded the battery enough to pull it down. Alternator couldn't keep up. You got into a low voltage situation where the computer and drive by wire throttle started getting very unhappy.

Where do you have the winch grounded at? At the battery is my guess. Look at the factory ground cable. Notice that little block that has 3 small wires on it? That is a current meter, the computer is watching how much current is being shoved into the battery. Since your winch was pulling massive amounts of power out of the battery the computer was watching hundreds of amps going into the battery over a long time and the voltage still dropping. At this point it can tell something is very wrong, probably about the point it started commanding the alternator to back off the charging and the lights got dim. Contrary to old school instructions, the winch ground should be attached to the body or engine block where the battery ground cable is attached at. This keeps the battery current meter working as designed.

Be prepared, long hard pulls will pull the battery down. No matter what. At idle with everything else on you probably don't have a lot of excess amps from the alternator. Shut down the radio, turn off the A/C, bring the engine up to a fast idle and you probably have 60-80 amps going into the battery (which is a really fast and hard charge). Thus the need for the current meter to watch the charge rate and throttle the alternator output down a little to avoid fast cooking the battery in normal use. You can't use the rated output of the alternator as part of that is needed to keep the engine running.

So it comes down to probably nothing is really wrong with the vehicle itself. Winch installation is probably a factor. Add in heavy use that simply ran the battery down low.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Where do you have the winch grounded at? At the battery is my guess. Contrary to old school instructions, the winch ground should be attached to the body or engine block where the battery ground cable is attached at. This keeps the battery current meter working as designed.

Shut down the radio, turn off the A/C, bring the engine up to a fast idle and you probably have 60-80 amps going into the battery (which is a really fast and hard charge). Thus the need for the current meter to watch the charge rate and throttle the alternator output down a little to avoid fast cooking the battery in normal use.
This is all great info! Im adding a second winch to my rear bumper and i was worried about running a ground to the frame but i guess it may be better? should i rewire my front winch and ground it to the frame? Could i just ground it to the bumper it is already attached to?

The radio and A/C were both off so I had the max amount I could have had. What do you mean with a fast and hard charge? and having a current meter? is this something i should look into adding and what do i do at what current? Im lost on this concept.
 

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Needs dual batteries(Odysseys) w/ power management system
And a Mean green alternator rated at 200 amps output
Separate heavy gauge power cable run to the rear
With a terminal block in the rear in case you have other ideas later.
then you will be ready grasshopper :):)

PS I have no used parts to offer you in this regard :):):)
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Get a quality battery


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duralast gold isnt the best but its not too bad... right?

a second battery might be of benefit to the OP as well
kind of what i was thinking. had this idea for a while just been on the back burner.

Needs dual batteries(Odysseys) w/ power management system
And a Mean green alternator rated at 200 amps output
Separate heavy gauge power cable run to the rear
With a terminal block in the rear in case you have other ideas later.
then you will be ready grasshopper :):)

PS I have no used parts to offer you in this regard :):):)
Ah yes i knew you would chime in on this. Been looking at your dual batts for quite some time. I was going to ask if you had anything for sale... I already have a fairlead in the rear bumper, and a winch mounted. just need to run some cable and get some synthetic line and i should be good to go! skimped out and got 2awg though...
 

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Instead of spending all that money on dual batts you could grab one really nice battery and synthetic rope and have that winch runing. And still money to spare , keep the current battery as a spare and throw it on board when you go on runs as you should have a backup. dual battery's are not needed, great mod but not needed


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Instead of spending all that money on dual batts you could grab one really nice battery and synthetic rope and have that winch runing. And still money to spare , keep the current battery as a spare and throw it on board when you go on runs as you should have a backup. dual battery's are not needed, great mod but not needed
One mans opinion.
I have had a battery die at the top of a mountain ridge in the Sierras.
flipped on second battery and drove out.

I disagree with your statement.
 

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Needs dual batteries(Odysseys) w/ power management system
And a Mean green alternator rated at 200 amps output
Separate heavy gauge power cable run to the rear
With a terminal block in the rear in case you have other ideas later.
then you will be ready grasshopper :):)

PS I have no used parts to offer you in this regard :):):)
Chris,

FIFY :-D

Needs dual batteries (Odysseys) w/ power management system and a Mean Green alternator rated at 200 amps output. Separate heavy gauge power cable run to the rear with a terminal block in the rear, in case you have other ideas later, then you will be ready grasshopper :):)

PS I have no used parts to offer you in this regard :):):)


Ramiro
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Discussion Starter #13
Having a secondary battery in the back isn't much cheaper than duals. The management system is the tricky part but it's not too bad. Either is going to be in the back burner. School is killing me right now so I'm pretty focused on that. My rim was bent recently so I got a new set. Then I find xcase fluid all over my tailgate and the whole undercarriage is soaked. So my seal was pretty much f'ed and the fluid was a nice strawberry milk color so I had to flush that. And then there's a nail in my km2 with about 2k miles on it.

Winch first.

Then fix the next thing that gets broken.

Then talk about dual batts. Unless autozone says my batt is no good. It's only about 2 years old though.

Then 4.10 gears from chris. Although these will probably sit for a while before they go in...


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was it a long hard pull on the winch? you could have just depleted the battery, winches pull alot of power and like was said above, the alternator kicks in when that sensor on the negative notices a draw. i encourage people to clamp any accessories(air compressors, jumper cables, winches) to the body ground so that the draw is seen by the computer and the alternator can help with the load. it would be nice if we had some high idle addons like the jeepers, im sure with the throttle by wire it would be an easy addon but no one has come up with anything yet.
 

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One mans opinion.
I have had a battery die at the top of a mountain ridge in the Sierras.
flipped on second battery and drove out.

I disagree with your statement.
So dual batteries are a necessity? I'd love to have the option of flipping a switch whenever I needed to for more power. But it's not needed. Doubt it was one of your first mods.


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Discussion Starter #16
Yes it was a decently long pull. For the first half i did have throttle response as well as winching ability.

if i connected the ground to the frame would the engine rev up as the battery gets drained and then i continue to have throttle?
 

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This is all great info! Im adding a second winch to my rear bumper and i was worried about running a ground to the frame but i guess it may be better? should i rewire my front winch and ground it to the frame? Could i just ground it to the bumper it is already attached to?

The radio and A/C were both off so I had the max amount I could have had. What do you mean with a fast and hard charge? and having a current meter? is this something i should look into adding and what do i do at what current? Im lost on this concept.
Actually the frame is a bad idea. Look at the ground cable coming off the battery. Goes to the body and the engine, does not attach to the frame. The body and engine all sit on rubber mounts. There is not a solid high amp capable ground to the frame.

The current meter is something monitored by the vehicle. Fairly common on new vehicles. Nothing you need to monitor and not much you can do with the information. Just a lot of people don't know what it even is. Something new that has not existed 10 years ago and slides under most peoples radar. Not a problem unless you do something wrong.
 

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I don't think there are any problems with excess, redundant grounds between engine, body, frame and battery. Problems arise with not adequate grounding for the load, back to the battery - how it gets there is not big concern. If this is not correct on newer vehicles for some reason, hope someone chimes in and explains - as I will have learned something new and important.
 

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Problems arise with not adequate grounding for the load, back to the battery - how it gets there is not big concern.
This is where the discussion about the current meter comes in. There is a vehicle monitored induction amp meter that the gounds back to the battery pass through ... if you take a look, you should see a ring around the negative battery cable, at some point close to the battery.

If you ground directly to the battery, that load goes un-monitored by the vehicle ... it comes out of the battery, but the vehicle doesn't know that has happened; and as a result, can't up the charging to compensate.
 
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