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NissTec T-Swap Mk II's Questions (Travel / Preload / Lift)

1744 Views 45 Replies 12 Participants Last post by  CThoreal, 
Oroterra
4
Hey yall

Earlier today I removed my front coils to test my fender clearance at full stuff limited by the bump stops and to adjust the preload up some. I was curious if I needed to trim the fenders and ended up getting my answer but thats unrelated. Since I was there I decided to test my wheel travel numbers, I never knew my exact amount. From Nisstec's website, their T-swap kit offers almost 12 inches of travel, I always took that with a grain of salt but guessed it to be in the 10 or so inches range. When putting the tire back on without the coil attached, it actually hit the ground when on jack stands. I needed to jack the suspension up to be able to get the tire back on. The tire drooped a full 2 inches or so from when the coil was attached before hitting the ground, with maybe 3 inches possible if the ground wasn't in the way.

No coil is attached, tire hits the ground as visualized. UCA still had plenty of clearance from coil bucket (SPC titan).
Tire Wheel Sky Automotive tire Vehicle


This is a picture of the tires removed with coils attached. I didn't take a direct side-by-side comparison at the time since I wasn't thinking much about this. You can notice the difference in the angle of the LCA.
Wheel Sky Tire Cloud Vehicle


Tire at full compression limited by bump stops, coilover removed.
Wheel Tire Car Vehicle Hood


Just now I went outside and measured my droop with everything assembled and my fender height.

My Fender Height Front - 37 3/4 inches
My Fender Height Rear - 39 inches
Stock FSM Front - 34.25
Stock FSM Rear - 35.59

My X has 285/75/r16 (32.8 inches)
FSM values with 265/75/r16 (31.6 inches)

Calculating actual lift height brings it to 2.9 Inches up front over stock. Thats a bit lower than I thought but of course I can adjust the preload some.

Going through my top of wheel to fender clearance to measure my wheel travel. Jacked the X up and used tape measure from top of tire to the fender.

Full droop - 9 inches
Full Compress - 0.5 inches

That brings me 8.5 inches of travel, far below what I was expecting... This is with the coils 2.5 turns clockwise from the top. That's about 1/4 inch below what I got from the box.

Parts up front that matter for this application:
  • SPC Titan UCA
  • Nisstec Titan Swap MKII's 2.5 inch body 650#
  • OEM Titan LCA
  • R180 Extended Shafts
  • Longer inner/outer tie rods.
  • Stock Spindle
  • Tubular bumper no winch, cant be more than 70 pounds over stock (DRO square tubular)
  • Steel rad skid (DRO universal skid)
  • Nothing else that would weigh a ton or affect travel

Coil Coil spring Automotive tire Audio equipment Shock absorber


So on to my questions for everyone.

1) Does my math make sense? My concerns only matter if that's correct. I might just be an idiot :ROFLMAO:
2) Is 8.5 inches of travel low? I have read some folks getting at least in the 10 inch range. 8.5 is slightly above what seems possible to get with stock width extended travel setups. Not very happy with how that measurement came out and want to know if thats normal for those running this coilover.
3) What do yall run for preload? I can't even see the threads on the top of the coil, its barely preloaded at all. I have read people running these over an inch below where im running.

I did some digging and nothing directly answered my questions. Im sitting here scratching my head on this as it makes no sense to me, so passing on my frustration to the forums instead LOL
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87iroc
I don't have time to read all of that but am VERY interested in it. Will come back later.

I heard from an unnamed source who is somewhat of a competitor to Nisstec that Nisstec's travel on the MKII's was much less than Radflo and that they were overselling them. They are not equal to the Rad's...just cheaper and new/shiny. As he is somewhat a competitor I took it with a 'interesting, but need to verify' comment.

I have been meaning to ask in here what people are seeing for travel to confirm the comments from this guy.

You, from my quick skim...are confirming it. Let me go see if I can find his comments.
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87iroc
Here's the comment from FB group

I have installed these for a customer. On the sellers site they claim 12" of wheel travel (impossible without a shock hoop) I cycled them and they only get 8.5" of wheel travel. They are shorter than the Radflo Swap coilovers. The seller just took a shock that goes to a different vehicle (most likely not valved correctly either) and said its the correct shock for a t swap. It's not. I do not recommend these shocks for this application
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AlbatrossCafe
Huh. That's interesting. I swapped from Radflo to MKII (titan swap on both). I had more droop with the MKII (or so I thought - maybe it was just longer than the Radflo). Stock is about ~5" of travel, a basic lift usually nets ~6.5", and TS with regular UCAs is supposed to be ~10.5". I know that for every 1" of coilover travel, you get around 1.9" of wheel travel. Maybe you could measure the coilover shaft length to take a guess at total wheel travel. Also, preload on the spring will not affect total travel #'s.

Kinda BS if it is really that short. That's not insignificant.
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B
From my experience, to get over 10" of travel in our rigs you need to go with shock hoops.
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87iroc
I did my Bilstein Tundra coilovers this weekend with custom tophats and OEM springs and have 9" of wheel travel. Only limit is the owner(me) desire to trim fender. I could have 10 with trimming. That 8.5 is a nice step up from stock but not as far as its billed as and thus making it a nice upgrade but Radflo is still top dog.

Curious if others have thoughts as that specific feedback is what cooled me on MKII's.(I'm optimistic Nisstec will get their poo together again someday...but getting concerned)
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B
I have just under 14" of travel. To get to that point I did the Titan swap, shock towers, 8" coil overs, fiberglass fenders, custom UCA/LCA... My buddy's rig, T swapped with no shock towers gets 8" of travel.

Either way is a big jump from the stock travel of 5"
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Ssanders224
I mean. Realistically, Nisstec should be able to provide the extended and compressed lengths for the MKs (and they may if someone contacts them?).

To sell custom, $1100 off-road coilovers, and not provide those numbers doesn't inspire confidence.
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Oroterra
AlbatrossCafe said:
Huh. That's interesting. I swapped from Radflo to MKII (titan swap on both). I had more droop with the MKII (or so I thought - maybe it was just longer than the Radflo). Stock is about ~5" of travel, a basic lift usually nets ~6.5", and TS with regular UCAs is supposed to be ~10.5". I know that for every 1" of coilover travel, you get around 1.9" of wheel travel. Maybe you could measure the coilover shaft length to take a guess at total wheel travel. Also, preload on the spring will not affect total travel #'s.

Kinda BS if it is really that short. That's not insignificant.
Click to expand...
I have seen you mention that before with your increased droop, I suppose I cant really measure it without a forklift or a ramp I simply don't have. I can't seem to find any values for what the full range of motion the MKII's can provide, it would be pretty simple to calculate it on paper with that value.
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Oroterra
Ssanders224 said:
I mean. Realistically, Nisstec should be able to provide the extended and compressed lengths for the MKs (and they may if someone contacts them?).

To sell custom, $1100 off-road coilovers, and not provide those numbers doesn't inspire confidence.
Click to expand...
I tried calling them a few times yesterday over the course of a couple of hours. No response. Plenty of threads on the difficulty of contacting them recently. I'll try a few more times this week and see if I can get some numbers from them.
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Oroterra
Otherwise, I'd love to get some better numbers from other people regarding travel here. If anyone has something please post em up.

It could also be that I'm hitting upper bumps BEFORE I would otherwise bottom the shock out, maybe with more than an inch left. The suspension itself has plenty of travel with no coil, but the coil is obviously the limiting factor for down travel, but it may be a factor of moving it down with a spacer could net more up travel before hitting bump. I am simply able to measure the max droop but not max compression.

If Nisstec is unable to give me any numbers I look around my area for something I can back the X onto and try to compress suspension up front. If the coil looks like it could go more, I'll give a small spacer a try and see if that changes anything. I was really hoping to avoid alot of the documented Radflo issues by running Nisstec (owned since Nov 2021'), hopefully, I didn't shoot myself in the foot with that. Overall i've been pretty happy with the suspension, sure 8.5 inches is nothing to scoff at compared to stock but it could be much better.
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B
Oroterra said:
Hey yall

Earlier today I removed my front coils to test my fender clearance at full stuff limited by the bump stops and to adjust the preload up some. I was curious if I needed to trim the fenders and ended up getting my answer but thats unrelated. Since I was there I decided to test my wheel travel numbers, I never knew my exact amount. From Nisstec's website, their T-swap kit offers almost 12 inches of travel, I always took that with a grain of salt but guessed it to be in the 10 or so inches range. When putting the tire back on without the coil attached, it actually hit the ground when on jack stands. I needed to jack the suspension up to be able to get the tire back on. The tire drooped a full 2 inches or so from when the coil was attached before hitting the ground, with maybe 3 inches possible if the ground wasn't in the way.

No coil is attached, tire hits the ground as visualized. UCA still had plenty of clearance from coil bucket (SPC titan).
View attachment 150094

This is a picture of the tires removed with coils attached. I didn't take a direct side-by-side comparison at the time since I wasn't thinking much about this. You can notice the difference in the angle of the LCA.
View attachment 150095

Tire at full compression limited by bump stops, coilover removed.
View attachment 150096

Just now I went outside and measured my droop with everything assembled and my fender height.

My Fender Height Front - 37 3/4 inches
My Fender Height Rear - 39 inches
Stock FSM Front - 34.25
Stock FSM Rear - 35.59

My X has 285/75/r16 (32.8 inches)
FSM values with 265/75/r16 (31.6 inches)

Calculating actual lift height brings it to 2.9 Inches up front over stock. Thats a bit lower than I thought but of course I can adjust the preload some.

Going through my top of wheel to fender clearance to measure my wheel travel. Jacked the X up and used tape measure from top of tire to the fender.

Full droop - 9 inches
Full Compress - 0.5 inches

That brings me 8.5 inches of travel, far below what I was expecting... This is with the coils 2.5 turns clockwise from the top. That's about 1/4 inch below what I got from the box.

Parts up front that matter for this application:
  • SPC Titan UCA
  • Nisstec Titan Swap MKII's 2.5 inch body 650#
  • OEM Titan LCA
  • R180 Extended Shafts
  • Longer inner/outer tie rods.
  • Stock Spindle
  • Tubular bumper no winch, cant be more than 70 pounds over stock (DRO square tubular)
  • Steel rad skid (DRO universal skid)
  • Nothing else that would weigh a ton or affect travel

View attachment 150098

So on to my questions for everyone.

1) Does my math make sense? My concerns only matter if that's correct. I might just be an idiot :ROFLMAO:
2) Is 8.5 inches of travel low? I have read some folks getting at least in the 10 inch range. 8.5 is slightly above what seems possible to get with stock width extended travel setups. Not very happy with how that measurement came out and want to know if thats normal for those running this coilover.
3) What do yall run for preload? I can't even see the threads on the top of the coil, its barely preloaded at all. I have read people running these over an inch below where im running.

I did some digging and nothing directly answered my questions. Im sitting here scratching my head on this as it makes no sense to me, so passing on my frustration to the forums instead LOL
Click to expand...
If I'm understanding your measurements, you would have 9.5" of travel, not 8.5".
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Oroterra
Wheel travel was calculated by finding the difference between the top of the tire and the fender lip at full extension, 9 inches, and full compression, 0.5 inches.

Front of vehicle jacked up until tire left the ground, 9 inch gap between the two points. This was limited by the coilover as the suspension droops a couple inches more without it. When suspension is fully jacked up independently from the vehicle, the bump stop stops the movement of the tire 0.5 inches from the fender lip, thus getting value at full compression.

The difference between the lowest point and highest point is 8.5 inches, making that the possible wheel travel with my current suspension set up. Since the bump stop was the limitation for compression, I noted that adding a spacer to move the coilover down could possibly allow it to compress more before hitting the bump stop. I am unsure if the coilover is the limiting factor in suspension compression as I do not know its minimum length.

Hopefully that makes sense unless i'm doing something wrong.
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87iroc
Depends on size of your bump stops. If you're doing that to keep from having to trim the fender like I am...then yah, there's more travel to be had.

Can you measure compressed and extended length of the MKII? Should be able to reach in with the coil off(if you haven't re-assembled it yet) and just measure eylet to top of strut mount and get a rough estimate. If you've already reassembled you should be able to reach in and get a exposed length of shaft measurement.

Most coilovers require fender trimming to get the full travel. If you put a 1/4" spacer in you might get up to like 9" of travel and so on and so forth. My design and what I've heard is about 18 1/2" from eye to top of strut top hat is what to shoot for at full extended length. Its what I designed mine to and I have about a half inch more droop than that. I had to jack things up just a bit to get it put together which was OK by me.
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87iroc
Don't know if this is from original poster here...but this just came across Xterra Crew

I don’t normally share experiences I have with companies but this last month I have been emailing and calling nisstec trying to get some answers on some parts in stock and some issues I’m having with the Elka/nisstec TS coilovers. I gave up and tried my luck with PRG. I gave them a call on Friday 3-17. Call was answered instantly, he answered all my questions about parts he has in stock (everything was in stock) then I told him what issues I was having with my coilovers and he let me know that Elka/nisstec made the coilover shorter than a true Titan swap and a small spacer was required to get the full down travel. I placed my order Friday 3/17 and all my parts arrived Monday 3/20. My only complaint is that I didn’t get a sticker
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NaboCRB
I am disappointed to hear that the MK IIs have been disappointing. I was eyeballing them....
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AlbatrossCafe
87iroc said:
I don’t normally share experiences I have with companies but this last month I have been emailing and calling nisstec trying to get some answers on some parts in stock and some issues I’m having with the Elka/nisstec TS coilovers. I gave up and tried my luck with PRG. I gave them a call on Friday 3-17. Call was answered instantly, he answered all my questions about parts he has in stock (everything was in stock) then I told him what issues I was having with my coilovers and he let me know that Elka/nisstec made the coilover shorter than a true Titan swap and a small spacer was required to get the full down travel. I placed my order Friday 3/17 and all my parts arrived Monday 3/20. My only complaint is that I didn’t get a sticker
Click to expand...
Truly never thought I'd live long enough to see these 2 companies flip-flop like this
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87iroc
It was a good day at prg. I’m not ordering anything anytime soon from him but do respect his input
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CThoreal
If I understood your method of measuring. This sounds like the tire was limiting you from measuring full compression. So maybe your setup only allows for 8.5 but could be more there.

With my MKII setup, my tires and fender are limiting my up travel right now. I tried a top spacer to shift the travel range downwards but then i could bot get ride height low enough. I might try again now that springs have settled a bit.

I'm under impression Elka uses an internal rubber bump stop. Where Radflo uses a metal one. While not meant to serve as main bump stop, a rubber one would hide a tiny bit of shock shaft travel, which you'd only see under real world loaded use and not a moch up. So there could be some travel hiding there.

Can we all agree to measure from fender to center of hub for travel numbers? This would rule out the tire variances that are present for everyone.
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87iroc
I am really appreciating the info share here. Its what makes forums great.

I measured my travel on my Tundra setup with the tires off for the same reason. See what real travel is w/o self imposed limits like fender clearance
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