Second Generation Nissan Xterra Forums banner
1 - 20 of 29 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
07 Xterra Offroad - stock bumpers, rack, etc. Falken AT3 33" w melt mod.

I recently replaced the rear stock leafs with ARB CS061R, OMESB99 Bushings and Bilstein 5100 24-187169.
The rear is great, small lift and no more hitting the bumpstop with a slight load.

For the front, I got adjustable camber bolts and replaced the front shocks with Bilstein 5100 24-187053_b and OME springs ARB-2607_a.
The front is HORRIBLE! Not sure if the shock and spring combo is the problem or if the install was screwed up, but the rebound is almost violent. The shocks will absorb a bump but then violently spring back after. Any suggestions on how to fix this? Pics attached.

Any help is appreciated, thank you!
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,760 Posts
...
For the front, I got adjustable camber bolts and replaced the front shocks with Bilstein 5100 24-187053_b and OME springs ARB-2607_a.
The front is HORRIBLE! Not sure if the shock and spring combo is the problem or if the install was screwed up, but the rebound is almost violent. The shocks will absorb a bump but then violently spring back after. Any suggestions on how to fix this? ...
If you rule out that it's not assembled incorrectly, to fix it, get OME struts that are matched to your OME coils.

See this thread:
https://www.thenewx.org/forum/14-suspension-steering/118729-ome-springs-bilstein-5100s.html
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
"If you rule out that it's not assembled incorrectly, to fix it, get OME struts that are matched to your OME coils."

Once I figure out if they were assembled that might be the fix...or maybe stick with the 5100s and get stock springs. Are the OME shocks that much better or just tuned to their springs?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,760 Posts
Once I figure out if they were assembled that might be the fix...or maybe stick with the 5100s and get stock springs. Are the OME shocks that much better or just tuned to their springs?
This post in the thread I linked explains it better than I can, so read that one closely if you didn't already:
https://www.thenewx.org/forum/1899601-post3.html

The OME strut is designed to work with OME coils. It's a system. I have been really happy with my setup and don't have anything to compare to, except worn out stock suspension. The OME setup was a great improvement over that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,681 Posts
As far as I can tell, the perch is in correctly, this is problem that frequently comes up. However, those springs are designed to provide 1.5" of life by themselves, without the additional use of the adjustable Bils. The Bils get you height by moving the spring perch and spring up, essentially adding pre-load. With these longer springs and the spring perch where you have it set at, I'd be willing to bet there's quite a bit of preload, that's why the unloading portion of the suspension cycle is so violent. I'd recommend going lower on the spring perch. Also, as everyone else already said, make sure the struts were assembled correctly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
133 Posts
From the picture it looks like he does not add any additional preload. The clip is on the lowest setting. The 5100 have too little rebound dampening IMO.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,486 Posts
Hard to tell in the photo - but it appears perhaps the bottom spring seat is upside down. I am basing that only off the little tab showing - bottom where the shock / spring meet - just right of the brake line in the photo. That looks like the tab where the spring rests against on assembly. I don't remember anything on the bottom side of that cup. Also the springs seem really compressed.

Again, hard to tell from the photo, and I have never done the adjustable bills - only the 4600's so maybe there different?

-- Never mind - just looked at mine again - and I take it back - they do appear correct - on the bottom at least.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
78 Posts
I will check with the guy that put them together. Thank you!
did you get this resolved? Easiest way to tell if the coil seat is on right or up-side-down is if the seat covers (completely) the C clip. It looks like pic3 the seat is correct, but difficult to tell from that angle. And as mentioned above, OME coil is 1.5-2" longer/taller. C clip must be on bottom most groove.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,082 Posts
From the picture it looks like he does not add any additional preload. The clip is on the lowest setting. The 5100 have too little rebound dampening IMO.
I'm not sure what the spring rate is of the OME coils but I had 600lb ones on a set of Bils and the ride was pretty bad. It would jump when you came out of potholes and with just a little bit of speed on, you could feel the suspension top out and the tires come off the ground.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,814 Posts
I'm not sure what the spring rate is of the OME coils but I had 600lb ones on a set of Bils and the ride was pretty bad. It would jump when you came out of potholes and with just a little bit of speed on, you could feel the suspension top out and the tires come off the ground.
Double blip the throttle and you'll be crossing logs like a champ with that setup :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
59 Posts
07 Xterra Offroad - stock bumpers, rack, etc. Falken AT3 33" w melt mod.



I recently replaced the rear stock leafs with ARB CS061R, OMESB99 Bushings and Bilstein 5100 24-187169.

The rear is great, small lift and no more hitting the bumpstop with a slight load.



For the front, I got adjustable camber bolts and replaced the front shocks with Bilstein 5100 24-187053_b and OME springs ARB-2607_a.

The front is HORRIBLE! Not sure if the shock and spring combo is the problem or if the install was screwed up, but the rebound is almost violent. The shocks will absorb a bump but then violently spring back after. Any suggestions on how to fix this? Pics attached.



Any help is appreciated, thank you!
I have the same set up in the front, but mine is set to full two inch lift, yours looks like it's still set at the bottom.

Sent from my VS990 using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
I just installed the 2607 springs and 5100's on the front and the compression and rebound is HORRIBLE. The springs are so stiff they barely even compress going over small speed bumps, the front tires hop off the ground and slam down, and the ride is exceptionally bouncy. I've modified the suspensions on many vehicles over the years, always used Bilstein with great results, but the problem seems to be the spring rate. It feels like I need to add the heaviest steel skids, bumper and winch I can find and maybe it will just be 'firm' at that point. The springs seem like they belong on a 1 ton diesel pickup, they're that hard. The front end bounces down the road like you see those crappy slammed civics with no suspension travel, just bouncing along.

I'm all for a firmer, more controlled ride, but this is WAY beyond that mark. It feels unsafe, it's so bad.

As for the setup, I had the spring perches set at the second to lowest setting and also added a 1/4" spacer at the top plate, as I was hoping for approx 2" of total lift. It looks like I got 4" of lift. Even with the camber bolts, the front tires are still slightly bow-legged looking because it's sitting so high. I don't have any aftermarket armor or a bumper (all stock). At the rear I have 5100's and air bags, which at 40PSI are giving probably 2" of lift, and the front is raked UPWARD now, where it was previously raked clearly downward. 2" of front lift was my target, and would have made it 'level' front to rear.

I can put the front spring perch one notch lower on the Bilsteins and get rid of the 1/4" top plate, but that's not going to affect the spring rate. I swear to God they must of mislabelled some HD spings as the medium duty 2607 springs. I cannot imagine they would have any kind of good reputation if everyone was getting the same results I am experiencing. It's absolutely HORRIBLE.

If anyone has the medium duty OME springs with an otherwise stock vehicle, I'd love to hear how you feel about the setup. Mine definitely does not seem like I got the correct springs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,760 Posts
I just installed the 2607 springs and 5100's on the front and the compression and rebound is HORRIBLE. The springs are so stiff they barely even compress going over small speed bumps, the front tires hop off the ground and slam down, and the ride is exceptionally bouncy. I've modified the suspensions on many vehicles over the years, always used Bilstein with great results, but the problem seems to be the spring rate. It feels like I need to add the heaviest steel skids, bumper and winch I can find and maybe it will just be 'firm' at that point. The springs seem like they belong on a 1 ton diesel pickup, they're that hard. The front end bounces down the road like you see those crappy slammed civics with no suspension travel, just bouncing along.

I'm all for a firmer, more controlled ride, but this is WAY beyond that mark. It feels unsafe, it's so bad.

As for the setup, I had the spring perches set at the second to lowest setting and also added a 1/4" spacer at the top plate, as I was hoping for approx 2" of total lift. It looks like I got 4" of lift. Even with the camber bolts, the front tires are still slightly bow-legged looking because it's sitting so high. I don't have any aftermarket armor or a bumper (all stock). At the rear I have 5100's and air bags, which at 40PSI are giving probably 2" of lift, and the front is raked UPWARD now, where it was previously raked clearly downward. 2" of front lift was my target, and would have made it 'level' front to rear.

I can put the front spring perch one notch lower on the Bilsteins and get rid of the 1/4" top plate, but that's not going to affect the spring rate. I swear to God they must of mislabelled some HD spings as the medium duty 2607 springs. I cannot imagine they would have any kind of good reputation if everyone was getting the same results I am experiencing. It's absolutely HORRIBLE.

If anyone has the medium duty OME springs with an otherwise stock vehicle, I'd love to hear how you feel about the setup. Mine definitely does not seem like I got the correct springs.
As this very thread states, OME springs and 5100's aren't a great combo. There have been many discussions about this going back years on the forum. See links posted earlier in the thread... and here's another example from a different forum:


Maybe you got mislabeled springs. It's going to be hard to tell, because other than the little sticker that OME puts on there, I don't think there's much else to identify them. I believe the HD 608 are slightly longer than the MD 607, but they're not thicker or otherwise visibly different. Even if you were sent the wrong ones, and you swap in the 607's, you'll probably not enjoy the ride with 5100's. The OME springs are designed to work with OME struts.

Here's my thoughts on the Old Man Emu setup (607 springs and OME struts in the front, MD leafs and OME shocks in the rear) with a mostly stock vehicle... albeit with some armor and sliders adding weight. Upon installation, initially it felt a bit stiff and harsh, but now many thousands of miles later I love the setup.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
Maybe you got mislabeled springs. It's going to be hard to tell, because other than the little sticker that OME puts on there, I don't think there's much else to identify them. I believe the HD 608 are slightly longer than the MD 607, but they're not thicker or otherwise visibly different. Even if you were sent the wrong ones, and you swap in the 607's, you'll probably not enjoy the ride with 5100's. The OME springs are designed to work with OME struts.

Here's my thoughts on the Old Man Emu setup (607 springs and OME struts in the front, MD leafs and OME shocks in the rear) with a mostly stock vehicle... albeit with some armor and sliders adding weight. Upon installation, initially it felt a bit stiff and harsh, but now many thousands of miles later I love the setup.

It feels like these springs belong on a much heavier vehicle. Shocks control the motion of the spring, but these springs don't even want to compress going over small bumps. It's not a shock problem, either. I have the 5100's on the rear too, and they're fine. I've used Bilsteins on well over a dozen cars and trucks over the years, and they have never failed to deliver excellent control of ride motion.

With the setup I have, it firstly seems to have delivered 3-4" of lift, as opposed to the 1.5-2" advertised. Unfortunately I didn't measure 'before', but mine looked like any other OE setup. I don't have any armor, side steps, etc. The front wheels, even with the new adjustable camber bolts, looks like the wheels are running slightly positive camber, which is not right, but would reflect the stock control arms being pushed beyond their capability.

Most of what I've read about the 'adjustable' 5100 setup is people saying not to use more than the lower two settings. I used the second lowest, but will lower it to the bottom. It will reduce it 1/2", but I don't envision that having any effect on what seems like an insanely hard spring rate. It literally bounces down the road like a cheaply slammed Civic with blown shocks. There's no spring compression happening. The shocks aren't the reason for that - I have the 5100's on the rear and they are comparable to stock lower range Bilstein stiffness (slightly stiffer) of the factory Bilsteins. Which is what they are supposed to be. The last time I felt a suspension like this was when a shop put my spring perches on upside down leaving the shocks in an overextended position, which resulted in a ride that felt much the same as this, because the shocks are not long enough for the spring height.

I suspect I was sent mislabeled springs, but am curious if any others have had this issue.

I have new stock size 265/75/16 Toyo AT3 tires (the ones released last year) and the height from the center of my front fender lip to the ground is 37". I can bring that down 3/4" by lowering the shocks to the lowest setting and removing the 1/4" spring perch spacer, but it's still not going to change how insanely firm the springs are.
 

·
Registered
2011 PRO-4X
Joined
·
1,151 Posts
What they are saying is those particular springs are only meant for the OME shocks. The OME shocks are only supposed to be used with those springs.
So what is happening in theory is the adjustable spring perch on the 5100's is too high even on the lowest setting putting excessive preload on those springs. With the OME shocks the lower perch is probably lower and not preloading those springs.

The issue isn't the springs or the shocks, the issue is using those springs with the wrong shocks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
What they are saying is those particular springs are only meant for the OME shocks. The OME shocks are only supposed to be used with those springs.
So what is happening in theory is the adjustable spring perch on the 5100's is too high even on the lowest setting putting excessive preload on those springs. With the OME shocks the lower perch is probably lower and not preloading those springs.

The issue isn't the springs or the shocks, the issue is using those springs with the wrong shocks.
I cannot fathom that the front Bilsteins (same 5100's as the rear, albeit with appropriately different valving) are so stiff they cause the vehicle to lift and completely prevent the springs from compressing over mere speedbumps. If the shocks were softer they would not be able to control the rebound, and they barely do as it sits. It's a very firm 'boingy' when going over undulations, and shows a setup where the springs have no ability to absorb anything, and they're so stiff they're overpowering the shocks and preventing them from appropriately controlling the rebound.

I should have measured the distance to the fender lip before swapping in the new OME/5100 setup, but at present it sits higher at the front than another X near me that has a Nisstec lift set to 2.5" of lift on 285's. I haven't measured, but I have more wheel well gap than that setup and mine looks like it has positive camber sitting still, which is bad. If these springs were only advertised to provide 1.5"-2" of lift... it wouldn't look like this, even with an extra 3/4" as it's set up now. I'll be lowering it down that 3/4", but the springs will still be just as stiff.

I'll try to get some photos tomorrow, but if anyone an provide stock height ground-to-fender lip measurement on 265/75/16's it would at least give me some idea how much lift I just got. No way this can be right. They wouldn't sell a single set of springs, much less have an otherwise decent reputation, if everyone was getting what I just got.

As for the shocks, OME used to sell softer shocks and switched to a firmer style shock that is pretty similar to Bilstein years ago, so they should be fairly similar in terms of motion control. I've driven a variety of Toyotas and other cars with 5100's (had them on a previous Wrangler and they were fantastic) and never seen any car or truck I've ever modified ride like this does. It has about as much ability to absorb bumps as my friend's old 240SX drift car. It's that bad.
 

·
Registered
2011 PRO-4X
Joined
·
1,151 Posts
I don't think you are understanding the issue.

The shock valving isn't the issue, the shocks aren't the issue, the lift height isn't the issue.

The issue is either the springs are too high of rate and you were sent the wrong ones or the springs are not designed to work with those shocks and have way too much preload on them which is more likely. It is the springs causing the stiff ride. Shocks have nothing to do with the springs being too stiff an not compressing, that is the springs, shocks only control the secondary motions.
 
1 - 20 of 29 Posts
Top