Pioneer AVH-w4400NEX with Rockford Integration - Sound Quality Thoughts and Ideas - Second Generation Nissan Xterra Forums (2005+)
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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 03:48 PM Thread Starter
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Pioneer AVH-w4400NEX with Rockford Integration - Sound Quality Thoughts and Ideas

Ok - so I've finally made the HU swap in my 2011 P4x!

Pioneer AVH-W4400NEX with a Maestro RR for Steering Wheel control and gauges. I used a PAC OEM-1 LOC to take the speaker level outs, get it to line level, and out to the factory harness. I based most of my install from https://www.thenewx.org/forum/15-how...up-camera.html but man... there really is info lacking as far as the Maestro RR goes, especially wiring in the SW controls. I'll follow up more on that on a future post hopefully.

This post though is about integrating an aftermarket headunit with the Rockford system. After installation, I was underwhelmed by the sound - the sub wasn't kicking as hard and no matter how I tuned it, it just felt worse than the OEM HU. Using any of the features of the HU such as time alignment ect made it worse. After further investigation and reading up, it appears that the Sub is being fed from all 8 speaker lines and crossed over at the amp. So any panning, crossovers, time alignment at the HU was helping the door speakers but effecting the signal to the sub. Kind of a bummer.

So here are my thoughts/options. Let me know if going down the right path or erroneous in any way.

a)Replace the rest of the RF system with a new sub/amp and either add a component amp or wire new speakers directly to HU
Probably the best quality sound option. I know most people will say just do this, but I really don't want eat any storage space with a box or make a custom box for under the seat though. This is also the most expensive option

b)Add a second component amp and swap door speakers. Run RCA out of HU for those Front and Back channels, and keep the LOC in line to drive the factory RF Sub/Amp.
This seems to make sense right? Can I output both to the RCA and Speaker level outputs form my HU? I guess any EQ/crossovers would still effect the sub huh? This would be a little cheaper of an investment.

c)Swap and/or wire new speakers directly to HU using the speaker outs, wire in the factory RF amp with the Metra 70-7551 Amplifier Integration Harness to the Sub out on my HU.
This seems to be the most feasible way to get the best sound for $$$ and keep the stock sub, right? I could then EQ and crossover my F/B, and not effect the signal to the sub. Am I loosing much ot only drive the RF amp with two channels of RCAs? Also- My HU has 4V Pres on it, is that ok to drive the RF Amp? Or is this setup the one that causes the POP when switching sources? If not, should I have skipped the LOC altogether and just used this Metra harness? Also - would the Pioneer be find to drive the stock speakers directly If I hard wired them?

d)Replace F/B speakers and wire to speaker outs on HU, Replace OEM RF amp, hardwire RF sub, and connect to Sub out with RCAs
Is this even possible?

Would love to know anyone's thoughts/insights on this and how to get the best sound out of the RF system after swapping the HU.

Last edited by visualsuplex; 04-09-2019 at 03:50 PM.
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-10-2019, 10:16 AM
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So I had just about the same dilemma with a 2013 and a 4200NEX.

I considered 'a' and might end up there eventually but ultimately ended at 'c' for now.

I had a speaker to line level converter like you did and boy, that sounded flat. The problem is that the stock RF amp is some goofy 7 channel thing (FR-High, FR-Mid, FL-High, FL-Mid, RR, RL, SW). The 4400, IIRC, is a 5 channel HU (FR, FL, RR, RL, SW), so if you are committed to getting sound out of all the speakers, you could always run some crossovers between the speaker level output of the HU and the line level FR/FL inputs to the RF amp. In retrospect, I should get another RCA->two wire connector to drive the subwoofer.

The Pioneer should be able to drive the speakers directly, but you'd still need a crossover to convert the the front channels to front high/mids.

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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-15-2019, 01:35 AM Thread Starter
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Hmm ok, so what did you end up doing? You replaced your F/B speakers and wired straight to HU? Do you then run the RF/AMP sub from a Pre from the HU?
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-15-2019, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by visualsuplex View Post
Hmm ok, so what did you end up doing? You replaced your F/B speakers and wired straight to HU? Do you then run the RF/AMP sub from a Pre from the HU?
Currently I have the line level fronts wired to the RF. I did just get crossovers, but I'm afraid they're not the ones I want as they are speaker levels. I'll give them a try this weekend, though.

Next step is going to be:

HU FR/FL line level -> crossover mid -> RF-> doors
HU FR/FL line level -> crossover high -> RF-> tweeters
HU SUB line level -> RF -> sub

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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-15-2019, 11:12 PM Thread Starter
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How're you getting to line level - Preamp RCAs to crossover (then speaker wire out to speakers)?

Or are you still using a LOC to convert the speaker outs on the HU to line level?

Or did you mean speaker level (which is amplified by HU) to crossover and into speakers, bypassing RF Amp? And howe do you get to the sub?

LOC or Preamp RCA to wiring harness and onto the RF Amp?

sorry - not totally following the signal flow and want to know what I need to to redo the installation.
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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-16-2019, 12:18 PM
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I got this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0007WTF5C

which allows me to connect the 4v preouts to the input of the RF amp. As it turns out, that doesn't fit a 2013, but I was able to cut the RCAs off of the harness and solder them to the other adapter I already had.

Realistically, this is probably as good/better: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003U48NIY

KE0KQL/AG
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-16-2019, 12:39 PM Thread Starter
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Ok Awesome.

So are you using both preamp outs to get four channels into the stock harness and onto the sub? or just two? It sounds like the sub is driven by all four channels, or is it just the rear?

and when dong this, you have no problem also using the speaker level outs simultaneously right?
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-16-2019, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by visualsuplex View Post
Ok Awesome.

So are you using both preamp outs to get four channels into the stock harness and onto the sub? or just two? It sounds like the sub is driven by all four channels, or is it just the rear?

and when doing this, you have no problem also using the speaker level outs simultaneously right?
Ok, deleting a bunch, because I was wrong.

Looks like the HU has only 4 channels and the crossovers are done in the RF amp:

http://www.nicoclub.com/FSM/Xterra/2013_xterra/AV.pdf

Page AV-204, connector M96 has FR, FL, RR, RL only.

For a 2011:

http://www.nicoclub.com/FSM/Xterra/2011_xterra/AV.pdf

Page AV-90, connector M44 has the same connections.

So using the 4v preouts connected to the FR, FL, RR, RL pins, you should be able to fully drive the RF amp, including the SW and dash tweeters.

KE0KQL/AG

Last edited by Brambleheart; 04-16-2019 at 01:41 PM. Reason: removed incorrect information
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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-16-2019, 02:46 PM Thread Starter
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Hmm - ok. I think my first step will be to will be to swap out the LOC for Preamp outs.

Do you think using the Preamp out method will be cleaner than using a LOC? Also - will this cause the popping issue I've read about (which requires wiring in an additional component to prevent?) And tell me if i'm getting this right, you're adding in your own crossovers to drive the F/B, connected vie preamp out and bypassing the OEM amp but using another preamp out into the OEM harness to drive the sub?

If that's the case, I think my next step will be doing the same, so I can get independent control of everything. I do think I will end up swapping the F/B speakers, wiring them directly to the HU via (probably with a component system for fronts and coaxials for rear). I'll then use the Preamp outs into the OEM harness to drive only the sub (and can be tuned separately)

Also - I'm not following what channels are feeding the sub, are all four (FR, FL, RR, RL)? Or can I get away with only using a pair of those?

Any chance of a schematic?

Last edited by visualsuplex; 04-16-2019 at 02:58 PM.
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-16-2019, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by visualsuplex View Post
Ok Awesome.

So are you using both preamp outs to get four channels into the stock harness and onto the sub? or just two? It sounds like the sub is driven by all four channels, or is it just the rear?

and when dong this, you have no problem also using the speaker level outs simultaneously right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by visualsuplex View Post
Hmm - ok. I think my first step will be to will be to swap out the LOC for Preamp outs.

Do you think using the Preamp out method will be cleaner than using a LOC? Also - will this cause the popping issue I've read about (which requires wiring in an additional component to prevent?) And tell me if i'm getting this right, you're adding in your own crossovers to drive the F/B, connected vie preamp out and bypassing the OEM amp but using another preamp out into the OEM harness to drive the sub?

If that's the case, I think my next step will be doing the same, so I can get independent control of everything. I do think I will end up swapping the F/B speakers, wiring them directly to the HU via (probably with a component system for fronts and coaxials for rear). I'll then use the Preamp outs into the OEM harness to drive only the sub (and can be tuned separately)

Also - I'm not following what channels are feeding the sub, are all four (FR, FL, RR, RL)? Or can I get away with only using a pair of those?

Any chance of a schematic?
I was very pleased swapping the LOC for the preouts. I had the popping too, but rather than wire the amp on signal to the HU, I wired it to the ACC. Probably not the preferred solution, but it's worked like a champ.

Based on the wiring diagram, there are four channels going to the amp. The crossovers must be in the amp, so there is no need for additional crossovers. The four channels feed into the amp which then splits out the highs from the front channels for the front tweeters and the lows for the sub.

I'll try to draw something up tonight.

KE0KQL/AG
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