Cons of a Front Auto LOKKA Locker? - Page 2 - Second Generation Nissan Xterra Forums (2005+)
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post #11 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-30-2015, 12:22 PM
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Locker newb here... How harsh are lokkas on average when engaging? Of course if your mashing the throttle any locking device could slam, but when being easy or moderate can they still be harsh or firm?

I used to have a 2005 tahoe with the auto 4wd mode. Worst thing ever. During winter driving it would try to engage at any speed if it sensed rear tire slippage and would slam the crap out of the front drive line and transfer case almost every time because it would engage so quickly you had no time to let off. I never used it because of this. And because of this I've always feared front auto lockers. For anyone not familiar with the GM auto mode it was basically a hydraulic clutch pack inside the transfer case that would lock the forward output shaft when needed.
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post #12 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-30-2015, 12:37 PM
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How many years have these been around for xterras? Yet not one in depth review of one used in snow. If I ever choose to do so, I will only put an ARB or similar air locker in there. That or leave it as an open diff.
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post #13 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-30-2015, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by sfujimoto123 View Post
On Facebook a guy was asking about the Lokka lockers and I read that auto lockers can be a down fall for people on trails in situations you don't expect them to lock, but couldn't find the thread I thought I read that on.

Am I right that they do have their down sides and cause you to get into spots you don't want to be in? Or did I completely mislead this guy with a bs comment.

I want to say it was @Surf and Snow who mentioned it.
Trails out here are tight with lots of trees. You need to be able to turn sharp and not be locked in the front bulldozing foward smashing into trees. Thus selectable is the way to go.

More so, I'd never run a Lokka in a a DD that's driven on icy/snowy roads. When going around a curve on icy/snowy roads I'm not going to risk this this locking and unlocking and changing the traction and ability to steer forcing the tires to slide because the turning radius is being forced to be the same for both front wheels.

If I can't afford a SAFE to use, selectable front locker, then I can't afford a front locker. I'm not risking injury to my family on the highway and or rolling/smashing up my rig just to save a few hundred off an ARB.


Here's an example of what can happen when you are locked in the front when you shouldn't be. Pay attention the the front tires. With an open diff, the X wouldn't have been forced sharply left in the front.

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post #14 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-30-2015, 01:27 PM
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https://youtu.be/ QX6Zov-FFI4

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Last edited by Surf and Snow; 12-30-2015 at 01:30 PM.
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post #15 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-30-2015, 03:05 PM
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I do not have a front locker in my 2005 Xterra Offroad. The Jeep CJ-7 rockcrawler I previously owned had a Detroit locker in the rear and a Lockright locker in front (similar in design/function to a Lokka).

My take on front lockers:

Surf and Sand's observations and opinions on the matter mirror my own. Based on past experience, I will not run a front locker again unless it is selectable, meaning that I can turn it on and off at will without any lag time.

Unless you can turn the front locker off at will you will find yourself in situations where it will pull you straight forward when you need to turn sharply and with precision, which in a tight off camber turn may and often does lead to disaster.

On my CJ I was able to disengage a hub when the front locker was a disadvantage, allowing one tire to freewheel which made steering more responsive. You can't do that with an Xterra - no hubs. I also had twin sticks for my D300 transfer case that allowed me to run 2WD low range as a means to "disengage" the front locker. Can't do that with an Xterra either.

Another problem with a front locker that can't be disengaged at will is the locker's effect on handling on ice in both 4WD high and low range. No thank you.

My opinion is that all too often we think we "need" something for our offroad rig to make it perform better when we really don't. Very few Xterra owners ever get into a situation where a front locker is necessary. Convenient, yes. Compensates for lack of experience and finesse, often. Great cool factor, certainly. Necessary, no.

For the few Xterra owners who do serious rockcrawling and difficult trails on a regular basis a front locker can be a great tool, but better an ARB which can be turned on or off at will than a Lokka which cannot. [Too bad there isn't an electric front locker on the market for those who need a front locker - it would eliminate the need for a permanently mounted air compressor and work quite nicely with the electric locker for the M226.]
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post #16 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-30-2015, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by chevy42083 View Post
That's what I'd wondered about. For one example... Sharp turn at the crest of a hill... can't let up TOO much, because your rear is still climbing, but don't want it pushing too much since it's locked. My brother (elocker) generally unlocks when it isn't NEEDED... including while finishing a climb like that.

What about a sharp turn on really sloppy/slick stuff... either mud or lots of wet leaves on soft dirt. You aren't in danger of getting stuck or not moving, but obviously need a LITTLE gas to get moving... is that enough to lock it, have it push, and have a wider turning radius?

Our trucks don't go between 2wd and 4wd all that quickly, so constantly switching isn't really a GREAT option.

Lots of trails are really geared towards Jeep turning radius... ours is close, but 2 point turn gets annoying, and losing momentum isn't an option at times.


<I still think benefits out way cons, and will probably get one (added benefit of not blowing spider gears)... but these are my doubts. Maybe there will be a slight learning curve, then it's all good from there?>
I run 4 low all the time since I am six speed. The trails can pretty tight here in East Pennsylvania (check out the tree carnage in my build). With the Lokka the steering is only a tiny bit harder than normal. It doesn't feel like a switchable locker.

There is one particularly tight turn on a trail that I frequent. If you don't hit right, you will bash your front bumper into the tree or have back up. There has been no difference with or without the locker.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CThoreal View Post
Locker newb here... How harsh are lokkas on average when engaging? Of course if your mashing the throttle any locking device could slam, but when being easy or moderate can they still be harsh or firm?

I used to have a 2005 tahoe with the auto 4wd mode. Worst thing ever. During winter driving it would try to engage at any speed if it sensed rear tire slippage and would slam the crap out of the front drive line and transfer case almost every time because it would engage so quickly you had no time to let off. I never used it because of this. And because of this I've always feared front auto lockers. For anyone not familiar with the GM auto mode it was basically a hydraulic clutch pack inside the transfer case that would lock the forward output shaft when needed.
In 4wd and under power, it is always on. There is no engaging. The only thing that happens is it disengages the faster turning wheel when in a sharp turn. This action is smooth as butter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Surf and Snow View Post
Trails out here are tight with lots of trees. You need to be able to turn sharp and not be locked in the front bulldozing foward smashing into trees. Thus selectable is the way to go.

More so, I'd never run a Lokka in a a DD that's driven on icy/snowy roads. When going around a curve on icy/snowy roads I'm not going to risk this this locking and unlocking and changing the traction and ability to steer forcing the tires to slide because the turning radius is being forced to be the same for both front wheels.

If I can't afford a SAFE to use, selectable front locker, then I can't afford a front locker. I'm not risking injury to my family on the highway and or rolling/smashing up my rig just to save a few hundred off an ARB.


Here's an example of what can happen when you are locked in the front when you shouldn't be. Pay attention the the front tires. With an open diff, the X wouldn't have been forced sharply left in the front.
This is the obvious voice of reason.

Where I live they use so much salt that the only time I use 4wd is when I want to go out and play or when I come to a stop light to get rolling again.

On the trails, it feels great to me. You do have to know what the front locker is capable of and plan your risk accordingly. That video looks like a few things went wrong including too much skinny pedal.

This might be a repeat but my personal reason for going lokka was that after I shredded my spider gears, it cost me $300 to get back on the trails and fix the part the broke. Going arb would have locked me (no pun intended) into 3.69 gears and r180. I am still not sure I am staying lokka...

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post #17 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-30-2015, 03:29 PM
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I also have the lokka and agree with lizardking on all points.

The steering is noticeably heavier, and it has a strong return to center. Not nearly as bad as a selectable locker though since it allows the faster tire to ratchet. I have not noticed any diminished turning radius.

In 2x4, you don't even know it is there.

We'll see about winter. If it ever snows this year, I'll be able to give a very good review (as will many others since a lot of us in the east bought them this year). I expect it to handle like a front wheel drive car.

Also, for those concerned about "surprises", don't be, it drives like it is locked any time you are in 4x4, you really can't feel it become un-locked (other than having the ability to turn - even then, it's not like it just turns off suddenly).

Yes, you have to adjust your driving habits since it is not an open diff any more. If you drive like you still have an open diff, make sure you get it on camera so we can make an example out of you haha


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Last edited by jsexton; 12-30-2015 at 03:32 PM.
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post #18 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-31-2015, 04:00 PM
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Off topic post warning:

I'm only here to comment on the video Surf posted. Locked or not, that was an idiot behind the wheel. Even from the camera's angle you can see he took the wrong line. Spinning your wheels on slick rock is rarely a wining maneuver, and the dip$h*t made no attempt to correct the sideways slide, which more often than not provides the results seen in the video. I hope he wasn't hurt, and I hope he learned his lesson.

Sorry for the thread jack.
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post #19 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-31-2015, 05:19 PM
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Please go to the below link and read some of the facts behind the Lokka. It will answer many of the questions that people have.

Frequently Asked Questions - LOKKA
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post #20 of 65 (permalink) Old 01-01-2016, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Surf and Snow View Post
https://youtu.be/ QX6Zov-FFI4

Delete the spaces for the html address. Video seems to have embedded problems here.
Because of that video, that guy will be famous. Forever.

I couldn't tell what the PF tire was doing. That looked like classic slide over due to loss of front traction. Seen locked and open vehicles do it.

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