There are some trails near my house that are well worn and people have been going out there for years, but I do not know if they are legal or not. One is a trail run along the power lines. There are entrances off of the main road and highway with no gates and no signs saying anything. From Google Maps, there appears to be fire roads cut through this same area as well, but once again, no signs. I've been out there before. We went out there all the time as kids, but that doesn't make it right. The last time I was at a gas station nearby, there was a convoy of four wheelers headed out there so I asked them where they were going. They were going to the same trails and I asked them if they new it was legal to go out there or not. They said that it was, but how can I tell for sure?

find out who owns the land and ask them

I guess that is what I am getting at. How do you find out who owns the land? Most of the land has nothing on it, so its not like you can go up to the house and knock on the door.

Looks like I was able to find some of that info on our local county webmapping site. It had a feature that I hadn't known about previously. It looks like some of it is owned by the county and some is owned privately. For the county owned land, is it fair to assume that access is allowed if it is not fenced and has no restricted access signs?

no...

More than likely, that county owned land is actually not meant to have those trails on it but no one enforces it. We have the same thing around here, actually running right along power lines as well. They'll keep those trails open for maintenance on the lines but they dont want ppl out there. In my case, the trails have been marked now though saying that you cannot go out there. These same trails run right across private property though as well and I know those ppl dont want trucks out there. I asked around and they have started putting cement blocks in the holes where there is mud so that ppl hit them. Kinda messed up but they keep telling these kids they arent allowed out there and the kids continue to do it. I was able to find out alot of this information from the Conservancy Officer, he is a cop that has been assigned to preserve the river in our area. One of the main things he does is hike around the woods in our area making sure everything is as it should be and if its not he either writes tickets or arrests ppl, depending on the nature of the offense. I would definitely stay off those trails but that is just my opinion on it. If you can find out who owns the privately owned land you could ask them but as for the county owned, unless you get permission, you're probably not meant to be out there.

Basically figured as much. I guess then you would have to assume that if it is not graded, then it probably isn't public.

Something to understand about power, gas, and other "lines" - in most cases they exist on on "utility easements" which is an exclusive agreement between the property owner and the power/gas companies. Basically the owner only grants the utility companies certain rights to cross their property and in no way gives anyone else rights to be there. I wouldn't assume anything - as Buck said, property owner permission is the key. If it's county property, not sure about where you live, but where I live I'd ask the county judge or sheriff.

Basically figured as much. I guess then you would have to assume that if it is not graded, then it probably isn't public.

NO
If it isn't yours, it's someone else's and it's your responsibility to get permission to trespass.
In Wisco, 7 million acres of land is public and 5 million of that is off limits to anybody coming upon it

Huh?
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Do not go on the trails underneath power lines. You can get big lawsuits against you if you get caught. If it was any other type of road, id say just go for it, but not there. Depends on your state also.

Do not go on the trails underneath power lines. You can get big lawsuits against you if you get caught. If it was any other type of road, id say just go for it, but not there. Depends on your state also.

no, you shouldn't "just go for it" ever, no matter what the property looks like. Even if it is just someones land that has no powerlines, that's how people get shot. Shooting may be an extreme example but just trying to make the point that not everyone wants a truck out running trails on their private property. The more that people just go wheeling without asking permission, the more property owners get pissed off and wont let anyone, even the ones that ask permission, go wheeling on their land. You cant just assume that you are allowed to be there. There are tons of people that feel that offroaders are just out to tear up the land and are basically a bunch of unruly hoodlums, "just going for it" is a perfect example of why people think like that.

How do the fire roads work? Are they private property?

alot of the fire roads are probably state owned, I dont know for sure on that though. I would just start asking around, try and track down someone who is involved with those roads and find out who to ask permission for driving on them. There are also websites that show the breakdown of land ownership in your area, I dont know the sites off the top of my head but I've used them around here before, they are helpful for finding out who owns what and trying to get permission to go out there.

This is a Federal Forest fire lane under some power lines. FR2892
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b337/wildbill59/Picture019-6.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b337/wildbill59/Picture018-3.jpg

It's on a map here
http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5322293.pdf
Get caught on Federal land where your not supposed to be and you're really SOL

I've got the link to the federal lands around here that we are going to look through. Most of the trails that we have hit so far have been relatively lame, hoping to find more that are interesting so that we can have fun and not break the law.

alot of the fire roads are probably state owned, I dont know for sure on that though. I would just start asking around, try and track down someone who is involved with those roads and find out who to ask permission for driving on them. There are also websites that show the breakdown of land ownership in your area, I dont know the sites off the top of my head but I've used them around here before, they are helpful for finding out who owns what and trying to get permission to go out there.

*state road, sorry

NO
If it isn't yours, it's someone else's and it's your responsibility to get permission to trespass.
In Wisco, 7 million acres of land is public and 5 million of that is off limits to anybody coming upon it

I hate this, I live in PA and its very similar. I'm currently looking for open forest land just to go camping in, but I want somewhere remote, completely away from civilization, 4x4-accessible. We plan on treading extremely lightly and not leaving any indication of our presence apart from maybe a pile of ashes, but we wanted to have a few brews. I also wanted to carry my trusty side-arm, since we'll be out in the wilderness and if I can carry my gun through a Wal-Mart you'd think I was allowed to carry it in the wilderness.

My concerns from the research I've done though are that so many publicly owned lands either allow camping but no motor vehicles (have to hike in), or they permit 4x4ing but restrict camping and open fires, many strictly forbid any alcohol, many have tons of firearm restrictions in and out of hunting season (really don't need a record of police confiscating my pistol for ANY reason) and many are simply no trespassing anytime ever. They tell you "oh if you want to camp and drive, theres plenty of nice prepared campsites around!" but thats missing the point entirely. I might as well camp in my back yard.

What sucks is I totally understand why these restrictions are in place. 12 year old Timmy breaks his leg on a trail rut 2 miles from civilization and spends a night in the woods, and suddenly parents are suing the state for neglect and maintaining unsafe conditions. Or they allow people there and high schoolers drag kegs and cases of beer back there, get wasted underage and leave a very obvious mess behind. So they put up a gate and wipe their hands clean.

I am a tax payer, and those No Trespassing signs are erected with my hard earned dollars. Growing up, we used to go mountain biking, hiking, camping, shooting guns, four wheeling, whatever we wanted out in the woods. Now I have to consider things like legality, fines, and other potential repercussions.

I think I'm just gonna say F it and go try it anyway. I was scoping a nice big green patch from Google's satellite view, and found it to be state owned but currently leased land to the gas drillers suckin our state dry, but not yet developed or drilled. The land is way off the cut, accessed by a power line trail, and has TONS of off roading tracks you can see through open patches in the trees, makes me nostalgic for home actually. So yes, people are definitely offroading back there, they probably didn't ask.. if they did, the answer would be No with no real explanation or consideration of the situation. So what can you do? Suck it up and accept that there is no escape from our over-regulated society, or just do it and accept the risk?

^why? just because someone else has been doing it doesnt make it the right thing to do. All you're doing by saying "F" it and going anyway is becoming part of the problem. I have to drive 2 hours or more for any really decent, legal, wheeling around here, so I do. There is no point in adding to the problem. If you see the tracks out there, maybe try asking around, who knows, maybe you are allowed out there. But atleast check first.

^that post was definitely a rant and a half and i probably wont try to skirt the law, but im just trying to voice my frustrations with the current situation. I dont even want to go wheeling primarily, I want to be away from civilization. Living in the jam-packed city wears on you when your roots are from seeing stars and listening to crickets rather than seeing yellow fog covering the sky and falling asleep to cop sirens and traffic. You'd think that in the expansive forest wilderness of PA this would be possible, but alas its all been posted and marked as this or that. I guess if I were to actually find a piece of land like this, it would probably be filled with weed plants and meth trailers anyway.

So, you posted up looking for resources. Here's how we go about it these days, and yeah, it's a lot different than it was when I was a kid and our closest neighbor was two miles away.

For U.S. Forest Service managed lands, there is currently a Motor Vehicle / OHV program which is working to put out current, or at least mostly current, motor vehicle / OHV use maps. These maps can include detail views of actual approved OHV trails, as well as regular FS roads, etc. Link here: http://www.fs.fed.us/recreation/programs/ohv/ohv_maps.shtml

For certain areas of the U.S., National Geographic has some EXCELLENT maps, called the "Trails Illustrated" maps. These maps have FS (Forest Service) roads well-marked, and also clearly mark use-specific hiking trails, OHV trails, horse trails, etc. Decent hiking / camping stores carry them, and I'll go take a look at them in the store - open up & see if they've got the happy OHV trails in the area I'm looking for, and if they do, I snag the map. But they're useful just for Forest Service roads, too. Link to the NatGeo Map info: http://www.natgeomaps.com/trailsillustrated

Depending upon your area, there are many thousands of miles of FS (Forest Service - aka Fire Roads by many) roads you can run legally. The FS will gate a closed road, generally, or otherwise mark it closed. Your local forest ranger station, or a ranger if you come across one, is/are an EXCELLENT resource for real live authoritative & current info. Our local offices will print those MVUM's out on request for free - they also have other maps either for free or just a few $$ which can help you stay on the right trails and out of trouble.

To help stay on track when you're running FS trails, you can update many GPS units w/ maps that include those roads, if they're not already in there. We've found that GPS info varies wildly - so that's worth checking around on and getting recommendations.

One of the worst resources? Straight USGS Topo maps. For one, they can be based on insanely old data, and second, they show all KINDS of "4WD" trails - but with no property / access / ownership designations.

Out west, the BLM (Bureau of Land Mgmt) is a good resource for OHV use - here's one of their pages for Montana, for example: http://www.blm.gov/mt/st/en/prog/recreation/ohv.html

Where in some cases in life it's easier to ask forgiveness than permission, mucking about on property for which the access rights are murky or unknown can get you anything from getting a HEFTY ticket to having your vehicle impounded or simply getting shot or shot at.

There are TONS of legitimate resources out there to help you find trails to run, it just takes time and some reading and cross-referencing, and asking the right questions of the right authorities, to find legit info. There are lots of places to camp, too, that are legal - again, you just need to take the time to find 'em.

Hopefully some of that stuff above helps!

For U.S. Forest Service managed lands, there is currently a Motor Vehicle / OHV program which is working to put out current, or at least mostly current, motor vehicle / OHV use maps. These maps can include detail views of actual approved OHV trails, as well as regular FS roads, etc. Link here: http://www.fs.fed.us/recreation/programs/ohv/ohv_maps.shtml



That's a great link, but it appears that the forest service can't keep up with their own districts. In many of the districts in my state, Motor Vehicle Use Maps exist, that don't show on that link. All districts are supposed to have them out by now (I think they were supposed to be complete by mid-2010), but several areas were very slow. Best bet is to contact the local forest service office, or web site, and see if they have them. According to the district rangers I've talked with, the MVUMs supersceed signage on the ground.

BTW, the forest service does NOT do a good job of keeping their web sites up to date on issues that effect ORV use. This is specifically true of proposals that would result in additional closures. Instead of posting information or comment periods on their home pages, they are usually burried somewhere.

Around here, in addition to the free MVUMs, the FS also sells "visitor maps" that have alot more detail, and better yet are on a plastic, water resistant backing. They also show roads/trails on land other than FS property (unlike the MVUMs). Between the two of them you're in decent shape. All too often the visitor maps in particular (along with USGS and GPS maps) are out of date, showing roads that have been obliterated, or not showing newly constructed ones. They can burn you. The MVUMs are more up to date, but roads may exist that are technically closed, and don't show on these maps either. Don't assume that just because the map shows that you want to take the 2nd right...that it's correct! I've asked our local office to publish GPS maps of the MVUMs, and they agreed that it was a good idea. Only thing is, nothing has happened.

That's a great link, but it appears that the forest service can't keep up with their own districts. In many of the districts in my state, Motor Vehicle Use Maps exist, that don't show on that link. All districts are supposed to have them out by now (I think they were supposed to be complete by mid-2010), but several areas were very slow. Best bet is to contact the local forest service office, or web site, and see if they have them. According to the district rangers I've talked with, the MVUMs supersceed signage on the ground.

BTW, the forest service does NOT do a good job of keeping their web sites up to date on issues that effect ORV use. This is specifically true of proposals that would result in additional closures. Instead of posting information or comment periods on their home pages, they are usually burried somewhere.

Around here, in addition to the free MVUMs, the FS also sells "visitor maps" that have alot more detail, and better yet are on a plastic, water resistant backing. They also show roads/trails on land other than FS property (unlike the MVUMs). Between the two of them you're in decent shape. All too often the visitor maps in particular (along with USGS and GPS maps) are out of date, showing roads that have been obliterated, or not showing newly constructed ones. They can burn you. The MVUMs are more up to date, but roads may exist that are technically closed, and don't show on these maps either. Don't assume that just because the map shows that you want to take the 2nd right...that it's correct! I've asked our local office to publish GPS maps of the MVUMs, and they agreed that it was a good idea. Only thing is, nothing has happened.

All good points, and totally agree. Bottom line is the most current info is direct from the local FS office for FS-managed areas - and a combination of maps plus simply paying attention to the signs (eg a gated road means a CLOSED road) is a good approach.

I will say that so far, out of all the maps we use, those NatGeo Trails Illustrated maps have been the most up-to-date so far as far as being in synch with designated OHV trails and their status - eg. when they show gated, they've been gated, and open / designated trails have synched up so far - at least in our area of N. Georgia / western NC, etc. Too bad that that set isn't available for more parts of the U.S. Oh, and they, too, are printed on super durable / tear resistant material, which is great.

(Editing to add that the MVUMs almost seem like some kind of insider secret in a bunch of districts - it can be virtually impossible to find the links to them - again a good reason to just drop by your local FS office and ask what they've got available).

All good points, and totally agree. Bottom line is the most current info is direct from the local FS office for FS-managed areas - and a combination of maps plus simply paying attention to the signs (eg a gated road means a CLOSED road) is a good approach.

I will say that so far, out of all the maps we use, those NatGeo Trails Illustrated maps have been the most up-to-date so far as far as being in synch with designated OHV trails and their status - eg. when they show gated, they've been gated, and open / designated trails have synched up so far - at least in our area of N. Georgia / western NC, etc. Too bad that that set isn't available for more parts of the U.S. Oh, and they, too, are printed on super durable / tear resistant material, which is great.

(Editing to add that the MVUMs almost seem like some kind of insider secret in a bunch of districts - it can be virtually impossible to find the links to them - again a good reason to just drop by your local FS office and ask what they've got available).

No disagreement on anything related to the Forest Service. In Idaho, gated STATE lands (IDOL) are not closed to vehicles under a certain size, I believe 60 inches. It doesn't help us on our Xs, but they are open to ATVs and motorcycles, if you can get around the gate. I was president of a local ATV club and talked to the local IDOL land manager to verify this.